macOS 10.13 (High Sierra) compatibility ?

      macOS 10.13 (High Sierra) compatibility ?

      So, macOS 10.13 "High Sierra" has been available for developers to test since June 5th, and we're a little under 2 months from release now.

      I'm already seeing many compatibility fixes being released for various apps.

      Has anyone tested Virus Control + drivers with it yet ? Hopefully Access is already on the case ? ^^
      Hi Marc,

      I'm happy to hear that all looks good so far !

      The official release date for macOS 10.13 at this time is "Fall", and in recent years that has always meant September.

      There is no final version but as you know, 99% of the time any breaking changes will be present from the first developer preview released in June, because most of them are API and deprecation changes that Apple will never ever go back on, so they're safe to start working on when problems do arise. Apple's developer preview program starts in June for this purpose, and I have seen compatibility updates from several apps I use already.

      Last year for Sierra, you released a public beta with a fix on November 9th, but the root problem that caused the Virus driver incompatibility was present in the first Sierra beta in June and being discussed on developer forums as early as June 28th :
      forums.developer.apple.com/thread/50380

      I was just hoping that you would do better this year, and I must respectfully point out that not everyone (not even many laptop-touring professionals I know) has a separate dedicated audio workstation to work with, and as a developer you cannot just expect your customers to remain isolated from everything else that happens in the software world, when Apple gave you a chance to be ready on day 1. For people getting new computers, not upgrading isn't even a choice they have.

      Anyways, long live the Virus !

      Marc schrieb:

      reno, there is absolutely no reason to install 10.13 once it's out. i doubt that anybody in the entire audio industry will recommend you to update instantly. our recommendation is: wait until everything you need is compatible.


      Marc, I know your recommendation.

      All I'm saying is that nowadays there is absolutely no technical reason for most software not to be compatible on day 1, so it is annoying to hear this stated as a fact of life that people should just deal with. That is simply not true.

      Again, not to rub this in your face but last year, the 10.12 incompatibility with the Virus driver was visible since June (3 months before Sierra release) and it was a 2 hours job to fix (I know, I did a workaround which dealt with the root cause). Yet the fix was released 2 months after Sierra came out. That's 5 months in total.

      I don't want to blame smaller companies who feel safer to wait until the final release to avoid unnecessary work. But any experienced developer can tell the difference between a bug that Apple might still fix before release, and a documented deprecation / API change that will NOT go away, and should be put on the todo list asap.

      You can't know all of the various situations that require people to upgrade (the most obvious one of course is getting a new computer !), it's not fair to tell them what they should do or shouldn't do, when you actually have a chance to prevent any problems from your end.

      This is not a rant against Access, this attitude is widespread in the audio industry (in contrast, in the rest of the software world I'm already seeing 10.13 updates for apps even from very small development shops !). But again, waiting has very rarely a good justification. It's just a bad habit.

      I'm happy that you said things look good so far, which presumably means that this year you guys have already started testing :)

      Marc schrieb:

      reno, there is absolutely no reason to install 10.13 once it's out. i doubt that anybody in the entire audio industry will recommend you to update instantly. our recommendation is: wait until everything you need is compatible.


      I agree Marc! If i had it my way i would stay on yosemite forever. 10.10.5

      I simply have no issues, with my myriad of hardware and daw performance. El capitan was an absolute nightmare but sierra is much better thankfully.

      The problem though Marc is, our DAW manufacturers. They are forcing us on MAC at least, to be cutting edge with our OS. I am lucky with pro tools in that 10.10 is still supported even with PT 12.8, but i am sure V13 will drop it.

      Apple has made 10.11 mandatory for a point update of logic. A point update! 12.3!

      steinberg will make 10.12 mandatory for cubase 9.5, and 10.13 for cubase 10, and so on.

      TNM schrieb:


      The problem though Marc is, our DAW manufacturers. They are forcing us on MAC at least, to be cutting edge with our OS. I am lucky with pro tools in that 10.10 is still supported even with PT 12.8, but i am sure V13 will drop it.

      Apple has made 10.11 mandatory for a point update of logic. A point update! 12.3!

      steinberg will make 10.12 mandatory for cubase 9.5, and 10.13 for cubase 10, and so on.


      And ? Why is that a problem to you ? Upgrading macOS is free.

      Have you thought that there may be very good reasons why the software world works this way ?
      New OSes bring changes that make developers' lives easier, and small companies just don't have the resources to maintain 2 versions of their software, one using the new way and the other the old way of doing things.

      If you refuse to upgrade your OS, then just use the older versions of DAWs but please don't ask developers to double their amount of work just so they please customers who hate upgrading (for mostly irrational reasons).

      Marc schrieb:

      @TNM usually the DAW manufacturers need time to get their software ready for an upcoming new OS. that's another reason why plug-in manufacturers are sometimes behind the curve.we have to wait for the DAWs to be compatible in order to perform real world tests on our software.


      That is true if you think you cannot give customers anything less than a 100% guaranteed certification for a specific OS/DAW version combination.

      In practice, I think people are much happier if given something that "should work" asap (as a public beta maybe) and will be fully tested and certified later when all DAWs are released, rather than being stuck with nothing until you believe you have aerospace/banking/nuclear power plants levels of software quality :)

      That is especially true when the problems have nothing to do with third party software like DAWs.

      Last year's Virus driver problem with Sierra was just a software packaging / signature issue that was reproducible and completely fixable since June (and caused by the use of a packaging format that was deprecated for several YEARS : Sierra only started to enforce the deprecation for real)
      Ok, I have been able to do a first quick test with 10.13 and there is good and bad news

      The bad news is that starting Virus Control freezes the DAW with 100% CPU for ~1 minute, before finally the plug-in window appears with "starting up"
      I have tested this with the latest 64bit versions of both Logic Pro and Ableton Live, and with both VST and AU on Live.
      I have the console logs with lots of "VTLIB" messages from the plug-in, if that is helpful for Access engineers (should I write to support ?)

      The good news is that Virus Control seems to work fine once it has managed to start.

      I haven't been able to test the audio interface functionality, but at least both interfaces (CoreAudio and Bit Accurate) show up normally in Audio MIDI Setup.

      I must say that I had not used the Virus for a long time with the computer I tested this with, so there is a small chance that the problems could have been here before upgrading to 10.13, but in any case this is the first time I have seen this issue.
      FYI, official announcement by Steinberg:


      Apple has announced its new macOS version, High Sierra, to be released on September 25. On October 17, Microsoft releases Fall Creators, their latest update to Windows 10.

      From the end of October on, we shall begin testing our current line of products on both these operating systems.

      Therefore, we strongly recommend to wait with the update to macOS High Sierra and Windows 10 Fall Creators until the entire compatibility chart for all Steinberg products has been published. This is especially important to customers relying on a trouble-free operation of our products.


      Which means, Access (and any other plugin developer) can start their final testing way after that. Ain't that fun!
      Bass Player and Synthesist.
      Virus TI2 Darkstar | Virus TI2 Desktop | Moog Sub 37 | Waldorf Blofeld | NI Maschine | NI Komplete Audio 6
      Mac OS X 10.12.6 (Sierra) | Cubase Pro 9 | Ableton Live 9.6 | MainStage 3.3 | NI Komplete 9

      oliAtBass schrieb:

      FYI, official announcement by Steinberg:


      Apple has announced its new macOS version, High Sierra, to be released on September 25. On October 17, Microsoft releases Fall Creators, their latest update to Windows 10.

      From the end of October on, we shall begin testing our current line of products on both these operating systems.

      Therefore, we strongly recommend to wait with the update to macOS High Sierra and Windows 10 Fall Creators until the entire compatibility chart for all Steinberg products has been published. This is especially important to customers relying on a trouble-free operation of our products.


      Which means, Access (and any other plugin developer) can start their final testing way after that. Ain't that fun!


      Thanks. Absolutely insane.

      But it's encouraging that most other big names in the audio industry are not pretending that High Sierra doesn't exist until tomorrow : they have done their job as they should and are ready on day 1 with official statements. Especially hardware companies (RME, Apogee, Line 6, Focusrite, M-Audio... ), but also major plug-in publishers like Arturia :
      sweetwater.com/sweetcare/artic…ompatibility-information/