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1

Sunday, January 17th 2010, 12:42am

VIRUS CONTROL LATENCY etc.

Hey guys,

I don't know whether this has been already posted or not but...
How many of you have experienced awful latency when using TI as VST instrument (via Virus Control) when playing on 3 and more midi channels? I'm able to put down 3 or 4 midi channels with pretty basic sounds (no effects, because I prefer to use VST effects) and not too dense arrangements, and when recording 4th channel, the latency is nearly 1 second. My sound interface is most of the time set to the latency of 128 samples (Echo Audiofire6), TI's output is set to basic L + R (no surround) - I've read on some forums this may help to get rid of the latency...

Sometimes I feel very frustrated and I rather use midi in/out and audio line out instead of using Virus as a VST instruments via USB. It's just that it is more convenient to load/edit/tweak sounds in Virus Control.

TI's OS is updated, everything else is up to date as well (audio interface firmware, host software, computer's os...) so I don't know what am I doing wrong here...

Computer is Macbook Pro 2.4Ghz running Leopard and Ableton Live 7.

Don't make me sell my beautiful Polar and use VST synths instead... :-)

Please help

Filip

2

Sunday, January 17th 2010, 11:01pm

You will get some better latency by using the virus asio driver in your daw, but who wants to do that.

If you would like to be able to use just the librarian part of the VC add your voice to this FR :
http://www.virus.info/forum/index.php?pa…ad&threadID=780

Just give us a librarian and let us deal with midi sync, latency , audio compensation and for me all that usb crap could go right where it belongs, the trash bin.

Now it^s great, if I need the VC to get some patch or do some advance editing, I need to launch a second vst host, copy the patch to the ram, close that app, and now I can use my TI again from my main audio app. It was more fun 20 years ago :rolleyes:

3

Monday, January 18th 2010, 8:05am

RE: VIRUS CONTROL LATENCY etc.

Hey guys,

I don't know whether this has been already posted or not but...
How many of you have experienced awful latency when using TI as VST instrument (via Virus Control) when playing on 3 and more midi channels? I'm able to put down 3 or 4 midi channels with pretty basic sounds (no effects, because I prefer to use VST effects) and not too dense arrangements, and when recording 4th channel, the latency is nearly 1 second. My sound interface is most of the time set to the latency of 128 samples (Echo Audiofire6), TI's output is set to basic L + R (no surround) - I've read on some forums this may help to get rid of the latency...

This is strange, since all data and audio is transmitted in one block, there actually can't be latency on only one channel (except you turn up the Amp Envelope or other intended patch settings). Make sure you are using the USB outs to get the best timing.
Don't make me sell my beautiful Polar and use VST synths instead... :-)

Never do that :)

-timo

4

Monday, January 18th 2010, 8:10am

You will get some better latency by using the virus asio driver in your daw, but who wants to do that.

Actually, you should make sure you are using ASIO at all on Windows systems and make sure your buffer is set to 128 to 512.

If you would like to be able to use just the librarian part of the VC add your voice to this FR :
http://www.virus.info/forum/index.php?pa…ad&threadID=780
Just give us a librarian and let us deal with midi sync, latency , audio compensation and for me all that usb crap could go right where it belongs, the trash bin.

Nobody prevents you from using VC just as a librarian, use the analog outs and switch of sample accuracy with the Live Mode button.

Now it^s great, if I need the VC to get some patch or do some advance editing, I need to launch a second vst host, copy the patch to the ram, close that app, and now I can use my TI again from my main audio app. It was more fun 20 years ago :rolleyes:

What host are you using that can't use VST plugins? If it can, you can also load VC into your "main audio app".

-timo

5

Monday, January 18th 2010, 9:33am

RE: RE: VIRUS CONTROL LATENCY etc.

Quoted from "Timo"

Nobody prevents you from using VC just as a librarian, use the analog outs and switch of sample accuracy with the Live Mode button.

Quoted


Even in Live mode I get latency + you have to press the live button each time you load a project.

But the biggest problem is that you can't access the TI directly (usb or standard midi port) once the VC is running. On my radias I can send clock and midi from my main pc/daw thru the midi port and use a netbook for editing using the usb midi port. Can't do that with the TI.
Also I have always at least 2 apps that need access to the TI at any time, which is not possible by using the VC.

Another problem is the clock, only the VC can send it to the TI. In my setup I have a plug that deals with the clocks, which let's me fine tune sync issues.
Plus I can for any of my synth quickly double or half the tempo. And even more fun, I can slow or accelarate the tempo on a single synth for a few bars or whatever.
Can't do that with the VC.


And my hosts can use VSTi, but the VC, with it's integration nightmare, brings me more troubles than needed, so I don't use it.

6

Monday, January 18th 2010, 1:03pm

so many posts and I have still have no idea which host you are using...

-timo

7

Monday, January 18th 2010, 2:05pm

so many posts and I have still have no idea which host you are using...

-timo


For what I'm talking about, the host used is totally irrevelant.
But FYI, one pc runs an instance of Bidule standalone, then either Cubase, Live or Reaper + a custom app that deals mainly with sysex (total recal for all my synth or sysex to CC conversion kind of stuf). Note that I'm using an RME audio interface so it's multiclient.

A second pc is running a second instance of bidule (midi only) + some other midi special stuff + my librarians for some of my synth( korg m3, radias,..)

My problem is as follow:

1) If I connect the TI to it's midi connectorsI can access it from any number of apps from any number of pc or hardware device: NO LIMITS (but no VC)

2) If I use the USB for midi only then only a single pc can access the TI directly, as the standard midi port is then disabled (probably to prevent morrons to send twice the midi clock to the ti, ... gofigure) : that sucks as I can't acess the ti directly from a second pc or hw device (and no VC).

3) NOW, if I launch the VC, then the only access to the ti is thru the VC. That means that only a single App from a single device (pc or hw) can access the TI at any time, plus you can't deal with the sync yourself + there are delay compensation errors when using the analogs out. The VC will still report a latency to the host even if the LIVE button is enabled, and this value is a total joke.

So all I need is a VC that just deals with patches, being able to access the usb (for midi) and the midi port at the same time from any other app or pc. Like my vsynth-gt, korg m3 , radias, motif xs, ... By trying to make it better than anyone else, access just managed to make it worse, IMO off course.

c'est simple non ? ich meine es ist einfach, nein ?

8

Monday, January 18th 2010, 3:28pm

so many posts and I have still have no idea which host you are using...

-timo


For what I'm talking about, the host used is totally irrevelant.

Sometimes people think that, but actually, it is not. The VST and AU standards are constantly changing, also by communication between access and other companies. Therefore have recent versions of supported sequencers is part of the game.

But FYI, one pc runs an instance of Bidule standalone, then either Cubase, Live or Reaper + a custom app that deals mainly with sysex (total recal for all my synth or sysex to CC conversion kind of stuf). Note that I'm using an RME audio interface so it's multiclient.

A second pc is running a second instance of bidule (midi only) + some other midi special stuff + my librarians for some of my synth( korg m3, radias,..)

My problem is as follow:

1) If I connect the TI to it's midi connectorsI can access it from any number of apps from any number of pc or hardware device: NO LIMITS (but no VC)

Right. Yet, no problem.

2) If I use the USB for midi only then only a single pc can access the TI directly, as the standard midi port is then disabled (probably to prevent morrons to send twice the midi clock to the ti, ... gofigure) : that sucks as I can't acess the ti directly from a second pc or hw device (and no VC).

It is not just preventing "twice the midi clock", the TI has a different timebase when being used in a plugin (which is currently the difference between analog outputs and usb).

3) NOW, if I launch the VC, then the only access to the ti is thru the VC. That means that only a single App from a single device (pc or hw) can access the TI at any time, plus you can't deal with the sync yourself + there are delay compensation errors when using the analogs out. The VC will still report a latency to the host even if the LIVE button is enabled, and this value is a total joke.

The value is an estimation. additionally, the solution for your setup would be: use Virus Control in a "standalone" host, routing "Virus TI MIDI IN" to "Virus Control", connect "Virus TI MIDI OUT" to "Virus TI MIDI IN" and use "Virus TI MIDI" as output in your MIDI application.

So all I need is a VC that just deals with patches, being able to access the usb (for midi) and the midi port at the same time from any other app or pc. Like my vsynth-gt, korg m3 , radias, motif xs, ... By trying to make it better than anyone else, access just managed to make it worse, IMO off course.
c'est simple non ? ich meine es ist einfach, nein ?

You will find that you need to take care of a lot of caveats when doing it like you do. Additionally, you can not guarantee the consistency of patches etc. You also loose the total recall feature, automation lanes etc.
I think your situation is also pretty special because only very few people do work so old fashioned today. And to make it short: you can just use some "single plugin host" (like savihost etc.) and wire it up to solve your problem.
-timo

9

Monday, January 18th 2010, 7:26pm

the solution for your setup would be: use Virus Control in a "standalone" host, routing "Virus TI MIDI IN" to "Virus Control", connect "Virus TI MIDI OUT" to "Virus TI MIDI IN" and use "Virus TI MIDI" as output in your MIDI application.

That's indeed a way to do it , but that's a bit too much latency for a live set up. I use this with a groove box, which is ok as I can send the clock start message a little early, but for live playing it's just too much.

You will find that you need to take care of a lot of caveats when doing it like you do. Additionally, you can not guarantee the consistency of patches etc. You also loose the total recall feature, automation lanes etc.
I think your situation is also pretty special because only very few people do work so old fashioned today. And to make it short: you can just use some "single plugin host" (like savihost etc.) and wire it up to solve your problem.

For me total recall doesn't just mean the TI , but all my synth, and in my setup, adding an extra synth is just a question of a few lines of code.
Also, one big problem I find when using a vst for patch recall, is that it will store the CURRENT state of the synth when saving.
In my "live sessions", I like to start with a given patch and start to do all kind of tweaking (that's what hw is for, right ?), but that doesn't mean I want this state to be saved, and if I eventualy ended with something great, I just store it in an empty slot in ram.

Anyway, no big deal, I can live without the VC, but I wouldn't mind having it on an extra netbook just for visual feedback. That display on the polar is really small.

10

Monday, January 18th 2010, 9:42pm

To reduce the latency you need to reduce the latency of the soundcard you (or your second VST host) is using. This is the determining factor to latency in Virus Control.

-timo