sync, sync, sync. lets admit we have a problem and fix it ....

  • I love my Virus TI very much ... very, very much ... And I really do appreciate that access continues to add in cool new features ...


    However, I think I would trade every new feature since the original OS for a reliable, solid sync between my Virus TI, using the 32 Bit VST2 Virus Control w/ Ableton Live 8 ... although, that last bit of information seems kind of pointless, as I have had this problem for the two years I've had my TI, in all the various and many incarnations of my software setups and computer changes ... Windows XP ... Vista ... Vista 64 ... Windows 7 .... FLStudio ... Ableton 7, Ableton 8 ... Intel Machine, AMD Machine .... Heck, I even got so desperate that I tried the 64 bit version of the Virus Control VST in Sonar. Alas, the Virus TI has always responded to midi notes unpredictably, and never in solid sync with the host sequencer. To make the situation even more frustrating, even the lack of sync is itself not in sync ... What do I mean by that? Well, it has never been a matter of, say, adjusting my sequencer to handle XXX ms/samples of latency - this assumes that the issue deals with a static number. To the contrary, the TI's lack of sync is confoundingly jerky. Every attempt at making a measurement of the timing gaps always show the same thing - total inconsistancy. 11ms here, 7 ms there, 9 ms here ...


    Can we admit that there is obviously some kind of fundamental problem here and find a way to fix it? That's all I want to see for OS Version 5. That is my dream.


    Thank You,


    Mike

  • same here marc. live mode enabled or not - the sync is still unpredictable. this seems to be a problem for a looooong time now. i had a polar ti before but let it go b/c pf this issue. now i buy a snow and still the problems are effectively the same.

  • Have u checked on wich party in the process is the synchhost? is that your daw, your soundcard or the Virus?
    In most cases this has to be the daw for hosting synch. Have u updated all your system OS and drivers, same for your soundcard?


    If the synch problem after these steps still persist then you might want to check out on Abelton for any updates that could work, eventualy contacting their support about Abelton not being able to synch with a hardware synth through usb.



    If these steps are nothing new to u, sorry but hope it helps you in the direction otherwise. succes :thumbup:

    http://www.myspace.com/monoproductionstm


    DAW: Cubase 5
    OS: Windows 7


    MB: Asus Rampage Extreme
    RAM: 4x 2GB DDR3 @ 1600MHz
    CPU: Intel core 2 quad @ 3.0 GHz
    GPU: ATI EAH 4890 1GB
    Sound: t.c. eletronic Konnekt 8
    Monitoring: 2x KRK rp6 g2 + 1x KRK rp10s
    DSP: UAD, t.c. eletronic Powercore 6000 including virus powercore
    USB: Virus Ti Polar
    FW: Korg m3

  • Hi,


    This problem does appear to be cross platform. My original understanding was that Logic was the main culprit. Obviously not the case and there seems to be an unwillingness to address the issue. I quite agree that getting the fundamentals of the operating system right would be far more beneficial than new features!!! How many types of distortion does one need anyway!

  • This problem does appear to be cross platform. My original understanding was that Logic was the main culprit. Obviously not the case and there seems to be an unwillingness to address the issue. I quite agree that getting the fundamentals of the operating system right would be far more beneficial than new features!!! How many types of distortion does one need anyway!

    certainly not an unwillingness but a lack of information keeps us from addressing the various problems discussed in parallel. i cannot help you guys out when e.g. the original poster is not answering my questions but other jump in and do it for him. i doubt that you all talk about the same issues, so if you want help, please specify exactly what's going wrong and amend your mails with details on the equipment used.


    best, marc

  • Marc and company,


    Macbook Pro
    RME fireface 800 soundcard
    Live 8
    TI


    I'm with you Marc. Why post a question if you aren't going to follow up. My experience with Access for the last 9 years is that the staff is all about making working out issues. Thanks by the way.


    The timing issues between the TI and Live are well known. Playback sync wanders and recorded midi notes never land in the right place. I have run countless tests of simply tying to sync a recorded midi note input with Lives metranome and cant get remotely close. Often the notes are a sixteenth off. I've even plugged in my old Indigo with old school midi just to be able to input midi (which is to say record music as it's played rather than inputing it with a mouse) as any musician would expect to do in this modern day. Old school Virus B, C, and Indigo with old school midi never had this kind of trouble but then Access didn't have a reliable library system like the TI. Running Ableton in Live mode DOES NOT solve the problem. (Sorry Marc) Using Live as the sync host and taking, using the TI as my sound card and taking my RME soundcard completely out of the loop DOES NOT solve the problem. Ableton has never responded to the issue other than to ask if I am using Live mode. May we all feel each others pain.


    Look Ableton bretheren, I, as many of you, waited for a good long time to update to Live 8 waiting for them to work out the timing kinks. I had to believe the issue was with Live as not only TI owners have serious issues with Live timing. I expected it would be solved in version 8 so I laid out the cash a couple of months ago to find that it may have gotten worse. And that was it. I came to the end of my relationship with Ableton. I purchase Logic, plugged it in and the problem has dissapeared. Poof. Years of frustration with Live, years of letting a DAW crush creativity and flow, and just like that it's over. Logic works flawlessly for me. (Use Live mode of course) So Timster, mate, it's not a cross platform issue for me. I really believe Ableton is just not up to the professional standard it needs to be. And bless them for making a DAW that was so easy to learn. It has opened up musical creation to thousands of people. Has many great ideas. But . . . I know we are all a bunch of starving aspirants and already invested in Live but look . . . what to you want to do for the next few years, write music or fight software.


    Two cents


    Cheers
    Steve


    Steve

  • Fundamental problem across all hosts and all platforms AFAIK. Part and parcel of the TI - sorry, but that is my experienced assessment.


    My take is the USB1 spec will NEVER handle mutliple audio streams reliably. End of story.

  • i think this is not the story of not synching with Ableton but just a an issue for Ableton since Cubase doesn't have problems synching with the Virus at all.



    Dusk, you mentioned usb1 again, i also think it was a very strange decision to put usb1 on a beastsynth like this while usb in common is so damn cheap to build in, it definitely doesn't lower productioncosts in any case for that mather. :) But for synching a hardware piece usb1 is valid.

    http://www.myspace.com/monoproductionstm


    DAW: Cubase 5
    OS: Windows 7


    MB: Asus Rampage Extreme
    RAM: 4x 2GB DDR3 @ 1600MHz
    CPU: Intel core 2 quad @ 3.0 GHz
    GPU: ATI EAH 4890 1GB
    Sound: t.c. eletronic Konnekt 8
    Monitoring: 2x KRK rp6 g2 + 1x KRK rp10s
    DSP: UAD, t.c. eletronic Powercore 6000 including virus powercore
    USB: Virus Ti Polar
    FW: Korg m3

  • Ive posted multiple posts regarding different types of sync issues.
    funny thing is last night everything works perfectly?
    Cool, until next time.
    I think that's what "mintarian" means by even the sync is out of sync.

  • If it's not a cross platform then why are there posts on here from Ableton users Logic users PC Mac blah blah? What makes it frustrating is the unpredictability of the 'unsyncing' so to speak, when it works it is excellent, nothing else like it. But ultimately, if it is a problem is with the inadequacies with USB can this be clarified once and for all? If so, would it be the better option to use the sequencer / arpeggiators etc in soft synth plug ins, which from my experience, stay in sync?


    Mac Pro,
    TI Keyboard
    Logic 8




    Regards

  • Using a computer as your MIDI clocking master (whether with MIDI clock or MTC) is never going to be as tight as hardware clocks (like from an MPC or other sequencer). Live in particular is infamous for having very sloppy MIDI timing when driving external gear.


    The reasons behind this have to do with the way computer OSes work and depending on what software and hardware is in your computer and MIDI interface (plus the inherent clock slop of MIDI itself), the MIDI clock performance will vary from user to user...which may be why some users are complaining and others seem to have no issues.


    Read this for some background on the problems.

  • Just in case, when using the VC, it's not the host that is sending the clock to the TI, but the VC itself. Getting an Innerlock system would be a total waste if you plan to use the VC in your host.
    I removed the VC from my setup, using only a standard MIDI cable from/to a good midi interface and the whole thing is tight. I can start an arp, come back an hour later and it's still in sync.
    In Live you can also set a delay for the clock , and this for each port.

  • Dunno about you guys, but I'm getting high DPC latency spikes on WIndows 7 whenever the Virus is switched on, this could easily be causing sync issues because the OS becomes less 'real time'...

  • If it's not a cross platform then why are there posts on here from Ableton users Logic users PC Mac blah blah? What makes it frustrating is the unpredictability of the 'unsyncing' so to speak, when it works it is excellent, nothing else like it. But ultimately, if it is a problem is with the inadequacies with USB can this be clarified once and for all? If so, would it be the better option to use the sequencer / arpeggiators etc in soft synth plug ins, which from my experience, stay in sync?


    Mac Pro,
    TI Keyboard
    Logic 8


    Regards

    timester -


    to clarify it once and for all: ;) no it is not a problem with USB, it might be a problem with the USB board some are using but since you're on a mac pro, that's unlikely unless you're using USB drives which you stream audio from or other things which consume an enormous amount of bandwidth.
    another thing: my logic pro installation (logic pro 9 on MacPro early 2008 and on a mac book pro mid 2009) is tight.


    best, marc

  • Hello Marc,


    The sync errors occur just using the virus in isolation in Logic. There is no audio streaming clogging things up so to speak. Are there any sync options within Logic which need to be altered to address this problem? I notice that you are using Logic 9. Has the sync accuracy been improved in this new version?


    Kind Regards.


    p.s My Mac Pro is Mid 2008

  • sorry for probably asking you a question which you have already answered - please describe as detailed as possible in which way a <sync error> happens to you. i just want to make sure that we talk about the same. what do i need to do in order to generate a sync error with your setup. do you get a sync warning (red warning in the info bar) with the error?


    best, marc

  • Hi


    The sync error occurs at random when the arpeggiator line kicks in on one of my tracks and recently has started occuring on other projects. I can't pin it down to any particular reason. Also I don't always get the sync error message. It only appears to be the Arp timing which doesn't lock to tempo, LFOs and delays appear to be ok, If it helps, the tempi of the projects are all around the 127 bpm region


    Kind Regards

  • i totally agree with you guys.. I think Access needs to stop creating new functionality and start fixing some bugs.
    There are constant sync issues with my virus ti2 and logic 8. I have virus ti2 connected on a direct USB port (no hub), i have iMac 2.4 ghz core duo with 4gig RAM. I doubt system power is a issue.


    My logic hangs also every time i close logic if i use Virus. I have reinstalled logic, reinstalled Virus ti2 firmware, took all usb devices out, sent crash logs to access rep, talked to their rep. nothing, he basically asked if i'm going to upgrade to Logic 9.
    I love the sounds, i hate the virus control. It buggy.