A bug that prevents pro music making on PC's. (on practically all TI OS)

    You know its funny... the more I think about it the more I remember I used to have a pitch problem at one point - but I put that down to varying latency (my main concern was getting LFOs and arps in time).


    Either way, I don't suffer from it any more - I don't know why - I should get back into using the virus in VST mode a bit more and see if I can make it do it again... maybe it is just a TI2 problem, now? I'd be surprised since you'd expect very little to be different between the two, aside from one having faster DSPs...

    Zitat von AtonyB

    You know its funny... the more I think about it the more I remember I used to have a pitch problem at one point - but I put that down to varying latency (my main concern was getting LFOs and arps in time).


    Either way, I don't suffer from it any more - I don't know why - I should get back into using the virus in VST mode a bit more and see if I can make it do it again... maybe it is just a TI2 problem, now? I'd be surprised since you'd expect very little to be different between the two, aside from one having faster DSPs...


    Again, my TI2 doesn't do that, aside from when ASIO f***s up and that's NOT Virus' fault. Of course, I'm PC based. I admit I would be this angry if my system did this and it was Virus' fault, but people who have the problem have really checked up their set-up? I had distortions going on at a certain point and turns out that my mainboard+cpu tried to go to a energy saving state, messing with my soundcard. It took a while and I solved it.
    Most likely every synth (but the Virus is the one you have and the most common I know of that sends audio over usb THROUGH a plugin) would shift a bit when the ASIO driver resets (which is a behavior my M-Audio ASIO drivers only do when changing sample-rate, and it's not triggered by FL or Sonar) and that has to happen, since we're talking about computers. It doesn't do that in stand-alone because it doesn't need to send anything to anything through anything - it doesn't do it on a Mac (according to you, I don't know one and my hardware is not hackintosh-compliant) because probably the driver doesn't gets this reset. My system doesn't do this, because the drivers I use don't do resets so frequently, and even when they do the pitch then comes back at where it was.


    Think about the issue where your Virus' DACs are outputting at 48.0kHz and you use a different sample-rate on your soundcard: is the pitch shifting depending on the synth? I think this issue you get is at least somewhat related to how the drivers you use behave - does this occur when using the TI as a soundcard?


    Disregard my acid comments about giving you thirty bucks for your flawed Virus, but I can't take seriously "a bug preventing pro-music making on every pc" when I know people produce and release and sell their music made with TI and Windows based computers.
    Just an example, Hans Zimmer switched from Mac to PC, uses the Virus on his music, it gets released as important movies' soundtracks. Now that's pretty "pro" and made on a "bugged" system.
    There HAS to be something that you can solve to keep using your PC AND your Virus together like other people do, and it is probably more on your side instead of Access', if their windows' systems work and most of the other users' systems work.

    Zitat von Roby31

    There HAS to be something that you can solve to keep using your PC AND your Virus together like other people do, and it is probably more on your side instead of Access', if their windows' systems work and most of the other users' systems work.


    Well, that is what one should think..


    There is no solution to this.


    ACCESS must fix the flaw they made, that - yes - indeed prevents any musician who have their aims to the best quality standards, from making stuff with a Virus TI.


    That is - this synth is proven to have a basic flaw, that is and can be replicated on ALL setups. On all computers, and on every Virus TI there is..


    This has been demonstrated by many posters in this topic to be a deep flaw within the Virus TI software.. That is, bothering everyone who has an ear for tune.


    Edit: Also, what makes this even more ridiculous - is that Virus TI's Sysex is sent as corrupted, incase one wants to save anymore sounds than just a single PART,


    :)


    Anyone able to confirm?


    I would be allmost happy to use my TI in stand alone mode but the Sysex is not sent / received correctly by the Virus TI..

    I think you might need to really look at your setup - it's very arrogant of you to assume that the only reason you are the only one voicing this issue is because you are the only one with ears good enough to hear it.


    I have zero problems getting audio from my virus in perfect tune into my productions using the Virus Control VST - and I'm pretty sure there are many like me, who aren't spending their time here because they are busy using it (me, I'm just passing the time waiting for code to run :) ).


    I will, however, at some point tinker with this - although I don't use cubase - and see if I can get any such pitch deviation... It certainly does not occur under normal operation.


    It is difficult for you to eliminate factors that could cause this issue in your system, because nothing works in the same way as the virus - PowerCore is similar but it uses FireWire which is no use for comparison. Perhaps there is a chipset that the TI does not get on with, or some other piece of USB hardware on the same bus causing problems, who knows... MAYBE there is something wrong with your virus, or a bunch of the TI2s.


    Again, all I know is that everything is hunky dory with my TI.

    Zitat von Roby31

    "Arrogant" is a very polite term to it.


    Arrogant to say, that a beef is too roasted, incase it is overcooked and you have tastebuds?


    There is no sense for someone with bad sight complaining over someone who does have a better sight. And that is of no arrogance, I am simply acknowliging the fact that I do hear tune better than some people, which is why I am also the guy who has to point this out.


    As you both have been reading, there are dozens of others in this topic, who have a percfect ear for tune, who have problems when their synth cannot procude a straight A - for instance.


    So either you are not willing to accept that you cannot hear this, or are trying to distract the topic for some other egoic reason.


    However, this is the case, and Thomann, my reseller also confirmed it with their tests - so you do not have any grounds of truth for saying me being Arrogant.


    I am simply a musician, a perfectionist, who wants the synth to work as flawlessly, as any other synth should be expected - to procuce a harmony, without variances - since it does that when connected to a mac.


    As you keep on posting, you are taking the focus into your lacking and inability to hear this - but please go on..

    Developers?


    You know this thread is starting to look really bad in your behalf, since there are many people all over the world now confirming this, and no answer from the developer as to what might be done, to a case of the most basic functioning of a synth (staying in tune) not being present at given times in the procuct.


    Devs?


    I know, because I've been told by the customer support, that you are given orders not to speak about this - but it would look better if you did.


    Just as a sidenote, this is the biggest error, that will become obvious to everyone, when all the other problems are sorted out.


    And no more quotes regarding phase-shifting please, since they are outright lies, and false (..as has been shown by numerous users in this topic..).

    Zitat von Silicon94

    Ok, I have exactly the same problem, but on Mac. System : Mac pro, Snow leopard 10.6.3. Drifting of around 1/10th of a tone, enough to be noticeable by ear, and quite uncomfortable. BUT if I use the analog outs of the Virus ( Virus snow here), no more pitch drifting, it's super stable. I even did a fresh install of OSX, only installing logic and the virus software, same problem. Happens on Logic studio and Ableton Live, on every sound card I have ( Orpheus, internal mac sound card, Virus as sound card), and at every buffer size.
    I tried on a Macbook pro, Leopard 10.5.8 : no problem at all, pitch is stable.
    I did all these tests using the Init patch, with the balance to the left ( only OSC1 then).


    Dude, thanks for this post..


    I tested it, and it does the same with PC - the Analog outs DO stay in tune.. (..even if the VST USB outs are drifting in tune at the same time!..)


    Wheww... This is a remarkable find man.. This is something my overcooked brain could not have at this stage figured out anymore by themselves.. Awesome :)


    This solves alot for me, so thanks...


    edit: semantics

    Update - I tested it, and beat it around and messed with buffer settings, etc.


    Pitch is solid as a rock and spectral analysers confirm this - and yes they are sensitive, hardware ones (the kind they use for tomography), and besides spotting all the aliases on the sine wave (on both classic osc and wavetable - they are almost identical, can't say more than that as it was not what i was checking).


    The supposed many that are having these troubles might want to start tendering real evidence (ie not on lossy youtube videos) and descriptions of your systems to find common factors, be it due to the virus or your pc. Perhaps a couple of wav files, too, so people can actually confirm that you are getting this pitch drift.


    But anyway, why do I care - mine works great, analogue or digital!

    What can I say; somebody who asks questions to which he already thinks he has the answers, so he does NOT read other people's posts, and instead says that those replies are LIES, is not "arrogant". I would use the term "retarded", if it wasn't offensive to those who have no guilt for their disabilities.


    Enjoy being an asshole while nobody helps you because their instruments work as supposed: via analog, via usb, using it as a soundcard. Say 1000 virus TI were sold. 500 of those to people who work with Windows-based machines. Only 10 of those notice the "drifting". You ASSUME other people can't hear. This is either being retarded or being batshit insane.

    Mods?


    Any visions on how to fix this?


    Since, Sysex dumping does not work in Virus TI correctly, and the midi timing of analogue outs (..that do stay in tune..), is hindered.. ..it is allmost impossible to use the Virus Ti in stand alone mode either.


    The timing of the Analogue outputs, also, when Virus TI is connected via usb, is messed up (..but not, when there is midi sent to them via Virus TI midi out..), so that using the analog outputs as a workaround to the pitch drifting bug is also bottlenecked..


    Would there possibly exist a fix for the timing of the analogue outs?


    Marc and others ( access), I am sorry for the angry tone in my voice, but I am simply not satisfied with a setup that does not either produce harmonies, or is not playing basslines accurately to the beat (or which sounds cannot be saved via a normal Sysex dump).

    Are you working in a live setup Lightsound?


    If not then surely you can either use PDC or simply record the output from the virus and nudge the audio file into time - In standalone mode it should not be any different to any other hardware for recording (in the days of OS1 thats how i used it!).

    Zitat von AtonyB

    Are you working in a live setup Lightsound?


    If not then surely you can either use PDC or simply record the output from the virus and nudge the audio file into time - In standalone mode it should not be any different to any other hardware for recording (in the days of OS1 thats how i used it!).


    Yeah, the setup is not going to be a live one, for some while..


    Thanks for the idea, but the analogue outs Midi timing is messed in a way where the midi timing has a random shifting..


    ie. a looped segment starts to play perfectly in sync..


    ..and in the end of the loop, all the notes are played out of sync.


    So, I'm dealing with a "variation" in the delay so to speak.

    Are you running it with live mode enabled?


    That will produce such behaviour - live mode is for just that and will give a shortened, but variable delay.


    Live mode switched off will give a longer, but fixed, delay...

    Zitat von AtonyB

    Are you running it with live mode enabled?


    That will produce such behaviour - live mode is for just that and will give a shortened, but variable delay.


    Live mode switched off will give a longer, but fixed, delay...


    Yeah,


    Nope I did not run my Virus in live mode.


    I actually stumbled upon something that will explain a bit why people are having so drastically different experiences regarding the pitch shifting, and it also solved the timing problems (of the analogue outputs) of the Virus TI.


    I simply changed the PCI slot of my soundcard.


    The drifting of the pitch is also allmost unnoticeable now (..but there is a little allmost unhearable amount of the drifting which yes sounds abit like phase shifting..), but I'll stick with the analogue outputs because they seem to be more reliable.


    So I can see why people had so different opinions, and I must admit that I took it a bit granted that everyone would have just as noticeable drifting, as some people did on their setups.


    What is interesting though, is that the Sysex problem was not fixed, but all other midi related probs are gone with this changing of the PCI slot..


    Thanks for all da help to everyone.

    That's a relief. Could be an opportunity to pass on useful intel to, and make friends again with, the retailer and Access too. Long may your pitch remain true, Lightsound :)

    Zitat von Roby31

    Thank god you actually followed some other people's advice


    No need for such vitriols...


    Yes - PCI is not the greatest interface there is for a hard time spec.


    It may just be me, but the virus always seems a bit smoother when it is plugged in my PCI-E USB card (also dedicated to the virus, too, as the bus is full on my motherboards USB controller).


    Lightsound: What sound card are you using?

    For me using another PCI slot doesn't make any difference :( However, i'll build myself a complete new system once the new 32nm AMDs are available at a reasonable price, and i guess i'll also buy a new soundcard (though finding a "simple", Windows 7 x64 compatible internal one with optical digital input that supports 32kHz+ seems to be a pretty much impossible task :/), maybe a nice side effect will be that it fixes that problem, we'll see.