Access, please unleash the power of the TI - without the hassle!

    I'm a long-time Access Virus user and fan - started out with the Virus C, and moved on to the TI when it was initially released. I hoped it would offer up an easy way of managing and modifying my patches, but after struggling with timing/delay compensation/latency/volume issues and needless fiddling with outputs, extra buttons that needed to be pressed etc, I gave up on the whole TI element and have just used it as a stand-alone unit ever since.


    However, it’s been a few years since I looked at the fabled TI aspect of the synth, so I was curious to see if Access had gotten around to implementing a simple patch/bank management mode without the added TI-as-a-soundcard-and-midiinterface/USB quirks/issues/hassles mentioned above.


    To be honest, I was really expecting this to have been sorted out by now, as it was a MUCH requested feature back then and offered a number of obvious advantages. But after reading through the forums, I’m frankly shocked and really saddened to see that this is *still* not the case!


    Access, how about implementing a simple mode that allows us to save and manage our banks and patches via the very nice GUI, but which otherwise allows us to use the TI completely as in stand-alone mode (audio via the audio outputs, midi via the midi ports etc, just as in stand-alone mode).


    IE no fancy audio via USB or anything, and subsequently without all the potential issues and frustrations that the whole USB aspect entails (I already have a sound card and a midi interface)!


    Some of us just want to use and manage the awesome synth that is the TI without all the hassle - is that really too much to ask?


    Thanks and best regards,
    - Asbjoern

    I don't know what program you are using, but couldn't you hook the virus up via USB and standard Midi, and use a instrument track with TI Control to manage your presets, but use a standard midi track set to the proper port/ channel that feeds your virus for the recording..........I'm not sure if the virus can receive both usb and standard midi at the same time, but if it can, I would think this would be a possible work around.....


    I agree with you though, a preference to use the standard mid ports and still use the browser would be a nice feature.......I would think it wouldn't be too hard to implement either.....

    Savihost causes my computer to crash - not BSoD, the machine does a hard reset.


    Also, running the VST causes the Virus Desktop to lose its MIDI input, so I can't play it and browse the patch libraries. So, yeah, a librarian version is definitely needed.


    -Stephen

    Scenario 1:
    - Launch DAW - wait
    - Open DAW's "Synth Rack"
    - Load Virus Control - wait
    - Unplug MIDI input cable from Virus (Desktop) and plug it into PC's MIDI Interface (because Virus' MIDI died when VC was launched)
    - Select MIDI input for Virus in DAW
    - Ready!
    - Enjoy the lag


    Scenario 2:
    - Launch as-yet-unavailable Virus Librarian
    - Ready! :D


    -Stephen

    Thanks for the feedback!


    @woodster77: Good to hear it's working out for you!


    Stephen: Good point :)


    heckmat: I know I can use it in stand-alone mode as any other hardware synth - that's what I'm doing at the moment, and it does offer up quite a few advantages:


    * No output latency issues
    * No input latency issues
    * No delay compensation affecting other synths
    * No USB volume issues
    * No loss of audio sync
    * No having to change between audio outputs depending on whether you want to record or play back
    * No crackling due to buffer issues
    * No host compatibility issues
    * When using the analogue outs: No sample rate concerns


    (I'm not suggesting everyone using VC will be experiencing this - it's just a list of some of the issues I recall people having with VC when I was using it)


    - however, by taking the stand-alone route I'm also missing out on the whole TI aspect and the benefits of a GUI for the TI within your host sequencer - such as:


    * Total project recall - ie load a project in your host sequencer, and all sounds and settings are instantly recalled
    * Onscreen parameter tweaking
    * Easy GUI sound selection
    * Easy patch and bank upgrades



    Thanks @woodster77, Marc, TiUser for the external VST host suggestions, but I still think there's a very real need for a sequencer-hosted version of VC with just the librarian features enabled - ie. a mode where the TI works just as in stand-alone, but without the whole audio-and-midi-via-USB-aspect (and potential problems/quirks outlined above) added to it.


    - Asbjoern

    i think, in case you suffer from all above, you seriously should think about a troubleshooting session instead of suggesting a "MIDI" only editor.


    marc

    "i think, in case you suffer from all above, you seriously should think about a troubleshooting session instead of suggesting a "MIDI" only editor.


    marc"



    Quite right - but that wasn't what I said. As mentioned, these are some of the issues I recall people describing when using the VC solution as it stands.

    50% of these points are inherent to VST technology and are not TI specific.


    There is no latency free PC based ASIO/VST audio. Not even practically with buffer sizes of 128 samples - also that works somehow acceptable.


    It's maybe more obvious with TI because it can send audio to your daw or host and getting it back at the same time for audio out which doubles latency timing compared to your usual view on this. Additionally there might be issues with your daw or host a stand alone unit might not suffer from.


    You can minimize latency by using VC just for midi - not audio. So you can still use VC to edit sounds and put them into the slots but latency is as low as possible... which is probably a compromise for live applications.


    PC's with windows are not designed for realtime computing. Win Vista and Win 7 seem to behave even worse compared to NT because of more inefficient drivers running on highest scheduling priorities. See OpenLabs is still using NT and I am sure they know pretty well why they do not upgrade yet. And do not tell me there is no 64bit... there is NT 64bit too if you wish.

    Personally I would love to see this idea implemented. Out of all the possible improvements suggested this is by far and away the best on this forum IMHO. Particularly if you are into using hardware sequencing for the timing stability. (ala MPC) I would use this way of working about 90% of the time just due to the timing improvements. being able to control the virus in the DAW but audio and midi direct would make the whole virus experience so much tighter and quicker to work with. Currently it is the last synth i load into the mix because of how sloppy it makes everything. Sounds great coming out of my prism converters but I would be more happy with running direct audio into all my valve gear etc (much better than plugins). Mostly I have been using the virus ti stand alone anyway just because it is so much tighter feeling when i write music.



    Its still my favorite digital synth tho.

    TiUser: VST may not be perfect, but I've had great and usable experiences with loads of VSTi's, so perhaps the reason why VC is proving to be so irksome is because it's sending audio back and forth as you mention.
    This is exactly why I think there's a very real need for a librarian-only solution which bypasses the current audio via USB-approach but still offers up some of the opportunities that make VC great.

    polybonk: Thanks for the post - glad you agree! In general, I'd say that anyone who feels that the VC solution is “good enough” as is should take the TI for a spin as a standalone unit. I think many will be surprised at the responsiveness and hassle-free experience that this provides.
    Hopefully, Access can provide a solution that offers the best of both worlds - ie. a simplified mode in VC without the quirks and workarounds that the whole audio+midi via USB entails.

    Why? You can do this now. Just load it in a simple host like Savihost or if for some reason that's not working for you, Cantabile (and there are several other lite hosts) and use the librarian features. If you're just using it as a librarian the other issues are not going to be affecting you anyway so I don't see why they are relevant?

    aMUSEd, thanks for the input. VC offers a very fine front-end for accessing the TI while working in-sequencer on a project - which is useful for selecting & tweaking patches etc - and running a separate VST host does not allow the user to save the current TI state & patches with the project for total recall.

    So what I'm talking about is a mode in VC where audio and midi is NOT sent via USB (ie the TI acts just like in stand-alone mode, with no latency, TI-as-a-soundcard concerns etc), but VC is still used within the sequencer.


    Hope that makes sense - if not, let me know.

    I thought what you refer to is already possible, either setting "D"irect audio output for any part you wish or changing the global audio routing of the Ti. So you still get the comfort of host integration while sound is latency free available at the analogue output of your Ti.
    You do not need to use the Ti's soundcard feature too when doing so.
    No midi? How should this work at all...
    Think I don't get what your problem is.

    Zitat von aMUSEd

    Why? You can do this now. Just load it in a simple host like Savihost or if for some reason that's not working for you, Cantabile (and there are several other lite hosts) and use the librarian features. If you're just using it as a librarian the other issues are not going to be affecting you anyway so I don't see why they are relevant?


    Don't forget that the MIDI input of the Virus is killed when VC launches. So, no more control for the Desktop. Unless you repatch, but what editor/librarian requires you to repatch your MIDI cables?


    Zitat von TiUser

    So you still get the comfort of host integration while sound is latency free available at the analogue output of your Ti.


    Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I don't know how it could happen, but sometimes I still get bad latency with the "D" clicked. And of course, there's no reason for an editor/librarian to have any latency.


    -Stephen

    Midi control of the desktop is only killed if you have the virus midi input selected in your DAW. Deselect that and you can play direct to your hardware Ti not the Control plugin while still using the library features. I really don't see what else you need that isn't already there. All the stuff about latency etc is irrelevant if you are just using the librarian features for patch management etc and not playing anything.