Still can't get stable click-free performance - please help!

Zitat von Jesper

I am so annoyed after spending hours in the studio again to find out what could be wrong...

I own one of the first TI Pølar that were delivered and I have NEVER been able to get it into a really stable working condition when using it in TI mode with the plugin. (In standalone it's really fine since OS 2.5.something) I have tried the support again and again and, although they try to help me we seem to be getting nowhere.

My problems look like this:

I'm using an M-audio Lightbridge with 18 Channels I/O and newest Logic on 8-core MacPro (MacOS 10.6.5).
The system is very well equipped and, the TI aside, runs perfectly and is capable of huge workloads without clicks or dropouts.

When I use the TI the Virus seems to get more and more unstable. I experience clicks, arpeggiators running out of sync and when it gets worse stuck or missing notes and flickering lights. The TI plugin doesn't show any errors.

I have tried using the Macs USB and using a Sonnet USB card especially for the virus. I have changed cables, I have de-installed other drivers and Automap just for checking: no improvement.

When I do a reset at the TI (power down, power on holding ARP Edit) problems are gone for one to three play-runs of the song but then start to sneak in again.
When using the TI as the only audio interface things seem to work OK, but that can't be a solution really. (I had the same problems using a Yamaha mLAN card and a MotU 828mkII as audio interface, so it's not the Lightbridge I think.)

BTW: I now like to work at 96kHz sample rate. Problems are less when in 44,1kHz but still present.

Has anyone been there and come to a solution?

Maybe somebody in Munich could lend me a Virus to try out if it's my TI that's behaving badly?

Please help, I'm really frustrated with this fine-souding synth.

Jesper

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I have a TI desktop, before that I owned a snow.. similar problems, tried everything; dedicated usb2 card, all of that. It never quite seemed to work perfectly, timing would randomly shift.

I have long since given up on it and now use the synth in standard mode, USB just for midi and no plugin. Based on the volume of posts here about these problems, I'd say that it's fair to say at this point that it doesn't work, it will never work. Firewire might have been a better choice, even if it's not as common in the PC world.

Hi Jesper,

as luck has it, I am also in munich and have a polar. I too am experiencing clicks and nasty noise blurts.. I work with ableton live but I doubt it matters. I always end up recording the channels and sounds off the virus 1 by 1 and dont really use it much in multimode-Live as its just too unreliable.

I have already considered downgrading to a snow or even an Indigo as that one seemed much more stable.

Anyway, hit me and lets see if we can shed some light on the polar

cheers AJ

I was just about to post pretty much exactly the same problem with a new TI i've just bought.

Random 'pops' in the virus audio signal sound familiar?

My problem kinda is that its new and im questioning whether i should return an amazing, but very costly product what doesnt do what it should and maybe wait for a TI3....?

What do you think guys? Bit gutted tbh because aside from those issues i've never had anything that sounds anything near as good

Excuse me for this intervention but the fact that you "just bought it" means to me that you've not even had the time to try and fix the situation. The TI isn't a magical piece of hardware that can be used in whatever computer situation. Like every USB device that streams lots of data, (Sound Cards, Graphic Acquisition Cards, Video streaming) it needs a correct setup in order to work. There's a whole document called the Setup Guide which guides the user through correcting bandwidth issues and sharing USB ports which I highly suggest you read. The high price of a Virus TI also comes with one of the best support services I've met in my "customer" life. Very quick and precise in addressing user troubles. You can contact it through the form on the main website http://www.virus.info/page/ren…ontact_and_resources.html

Rest assured that other users like me aren't having fun of those of us who have problems with their system but can do very little to help in such situations when there's more complaining that actual data to work on, for example the system's full specs.

Yeah, thats fine i understand what your saying, and i know i'm being hasty, just what happens when you spend this much money i guess...

Well, i've read through that document a few times since having the TI and i feel like i've tried most options. Interestingly the clicks will only appear at the start of the MIDI file, for example after a 2 bar empty section at the start, all seems to run smoothly, which i can live with.

Outside of the setup guide is there anything i should check to ensure optimal performance?

Zitat von robg

I have long since given up on it and now use the synth in standard mode, USB just for midi and no plugin. Based on the volume of posts here about these problems, I'd say that it's fair to say at this point that it doesn't work, it will never work. Firewire might have been a better choice, even if it's not as common in the PC world.

there are many reasons for clicks and pops. we have not found one which cannot be cured so far. i know, this is frustrating and you can see this issue popping up on our forum and elsewhere every now and then. you should get in touch with support for two reasons: we can help you out and if there is a real problem, we can address it. "i'm in the same boat" doesn't really help you guys or us either.
best, marc

Zitat von Marc

there are many reasons for clicks and pops. we have not found one which cannot be cured so far. i know, this is frustrating and you can see this issue popping up on our forum and elsewhere every now and then. you should get in touch with support for two reasons: we can help you out and if there is a real problem, we can address it. "i'm in the same boat" doesn't really help you guys or us either.
best, marc

Well, my experience was never "that bad" as some of the posts I've read in here. It "mostly worked" and it's possible to make music with, however there were little problems. The most recent time I tried was with a brand-new macbook pro and the most recent TI beta a couple of months ago. I made sure to use the proper USB port which was not conflicting with anything, I suppose a dedicated expresscard/34 type adaptor would be ideal.

There were still some slight timing shifts that would correct themselves after pressing stop and play again. Sometimes it would also make sounds on its own during stop with no keys pressed. It's just never felt as solid to me as the analog/midi way. I will give it another shot one day.. meanwhile, I have all these knobs on the TI, might as well use them

Do you happen to know why the maximum bandwidth of the virus is still equivalent to USB 1.1 speeds?

Zitat von robg

Do you happen to know why the maximum bandwidth of the virus is still equivalent to USB 1.1 speeds?

the maximum bandwidth required for the TI to work is below what a 12mbit connection can deliver. bandwidth itself it only a problem if it cannot be delivered. but crackling is usually not a problem deriving from a bandwidth problem. it is usually caused by lost/broken USB packages and those are caused by a faulty connection.

marc

Zitat von Jesper

Hi Marc,

it seems to be that I have been through everything with support (I tried the full "procedure" over again with every new system I had running over the years...) - there doesn't seem to be a solution!
It's not working and support could not give me any new things to try. So, it seems I'm stuck with that.

regards, Jesper

hi jesper,

if you like, please contact support again and we go from there. i'm not working in support but i can escalate your case and we can see what we find, okay?

thanks, marc

USB power management is what caused clicking/popping for me - (pcs it goes under the name of USB selective suspend, don't know about macs)

remind me why this synth is so Expensive Again

Zitat von moody

remind me why this synth is so Expensive Again

Remind me which synths can sound half as amazing, again?

I think the issue is not the sound of the Virus--it has been awesome since the beginning. However, consider the changes since the Virus C. There are dual DSP's, hypersaw, reverb+delay, multi patch improvements, and some other really cool features hardware-wise, but think of what TI stands for--TOTAL INTEGRATION. The major difference is in getting the Virus to integrate smoothly and act as a sound card, synthesizer, and midi controller all in one. This is how they marketed the entire TI line. Why customers are so irritated is because getting the software side of the house running smoothly is so fickle; it's not exactly plug-and-play. It shouldn't take a software/hardware engineer to figure these kinds of things out. I don't think anyone here questions the sonic prowess of the TI hardware. People just get frustrated when they drop three grand on something and they can't get it to function as advertised. Really, the TI has to rely on the underlying limitations of the technology (ASIO, USB, Windows/OS-X etc) for realtime playback, so ultimately, it's up to the users to fine tune their particular computer systems.

Zitat von mattytraxx

... the TI has to rely on the underlying limitations of the technology (ASIO, USB, Windows/OS-X etc) for realtime playback, so ultimately, it's up to the users to fine tune their particular computer systems.

Exactly, coming up with a general solution and a slick solution are, in general, contradictory - so requiring a little fine tuning on the user end is a reasonable compromise. What is lacking is people communicating how they got there in the tips and tricks section. Probably because they are too busy getting work done to be loud here...

Mine works just fine and I've shared my 'golden setup' and it's no real hassle to implement... I had the TI since OS1 and it wasn't so TI then, but ever since around OS 2 and especially since OS 3.5ish-4 it has sat in my DAW with not even a peep of a problem (aside from Win7 GUI issues).

I think because of the extreme level of diversity in peoples' systems, only a community solution is practical as Access cannot test each and every permutation of hardware (hence why they release betas).

Zitat von AtonyB

Mine works just fine and I've shared my 'golden setup' and it's no real hassle to implement...

Copying this from your other post, your golden setup is:
------------------
OS: Windows 7 x64
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2
Motherboard: ASUS nVidia chipset
DAW: FL Studio
ASIO driver in use: Creative ASIO
USB Devices: Lots and varying
dedicated PCI-e USB card for virus and midi keyboards
No noticable problems
------------------
My question for you is why do you use the Creative ASIO instead of the Virus USB ASIO driver? My understanding is that you cannot use two different ASIO drivers simultaneously--it's a limitation of ASIO implementation. I'm not implying that you are trying to use two drivers at the same time, I'm just noticing that because you have to choose a single driver, you chose to use the Creative ASIO driver. So if you are not using the Virus USB ASIO driver, then you are also not using the intended full feature set of the Virus TI. It's not really fair to say you have a 'golden setup' if you aren't utilizing the Virus USB ASIO driver.
It's great your setup works, though--thanks for sharing.

Zitat von AtonyB

requiring a little fine tuning on the user end is a reasonable compromise. What is lacking is people communicating how they got there in the tips and tricks section.

Well, I think I've gone well beyond doing just "a little fine tuning":
My Troubleshooting Steps
Here's a video of what happens (warning: no sound, sorry about the magnifyer window):
TI OS 4.1.1.05 Crash
Pictures of the messed up GUI (Filter1) and crash report:
Crash Pictures

Access forum admin 'Marc' suggests that there isn't a single problem that hasn't been able to be resolved, yet not a single person has been able to point out something that I'm doing wrong. I have two tickets (slightly different problems) in the queue with customer support and haven't heard a peep back.
I applaud your effort to start a 'golden setup' list in the Tips&Tricks section, and you're right; once people get their rig working, they stop coming here to complain, and they often don't post an in-depth solution.

I'm not saying I have a perfectly configured system, but at the same time, I think my computer is sufficiently powerful, my setup is in accordance with the TI Setup Guide and all TI manuals, and I can proove that 1) the latency of my system is sufficient for audio processing and 2) the Virus Control x64-bit .dll plugin made a function call that eventually led to a crash (see call stack in my post above). To elaborate, VirusControl.dll made a call to kernel32.dll, which in turn made a call to ntdll.dll, which lead to the crash. Both kernel32.dll and ntdll.dll are system (Windows) core routines, and I'd highly doubt that the problem lies there. These Windows system .dll files are extremely heavily tested on numerous system configurations. I wonder whether Kemper Digital / Access Music has the resources to do this level of testing.

I'm still not saying my setup is correct. I think I've done everything correct and that my hardware, software, and driver configurations exceed what is required by a long shot. I'm begging for someone to proove me wrong.

Fortunately you are probably a rare case - though this is likely to be of little solace to yourself.

I have found Access support to be extremely helpful whenever I have contacted them - so I am surprised if you are not in receipt of the same level of care... I have just noticed another question you asked so ill dump this post as it serves no productive purpose other than to say you should hang in there and im sure it will be resolved...