USB Connection Lost - still!

Hi all,

I'm sure you ALL know about this bug. There is no way to solve it for me, so I will be selling my Virus TI very soon. I have lost the will to create music, since for years I have put up with this problem and no solution has ever been offered.

"USB Connection Lost" - This is mostly caused whenever someone turns on an electric device in the local vicinity. It causes a slight power spike/dip that instantly causes the Virus TI to lose its USB connection. Whenever switching a light on/off in the house, or even switching a piece of studio equipment on/off, the Virus TI instantly loses connection and the sound that was playing loops in the buffer constantly.

There is no way to solve the issue, since I cannot ask the neighbours to keep their fingers away from light switches, or tell them to not switch on their oven when they want to cook something. My usual workaround is to switch the Virus TI off and on again, then close and reopen Cubase. This I tend to do about once every 3 or 4 minutes, since the Virus TI crashes a lot.

I'm curious how many other people have put up with this 'quirk' for the past few years.

Thanks, Jim.

Zitat von Ruari

Thats not normal, do the lights dim in your house as more people in the street start to turn their lights on?

What happens if you switch the kettle on?

What part of the world are you in?

How old is the wiring in your house?

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I have had this problem since I bought the Virus TI and in several different houses with different computers. This problem has been the most persistent out of all the other problems I've had with the TI, which is why I am seriously considering selling it.

"Switch the kettle on?" = no problem
"Part of world I live in?" = England
"How old is wiring?" = I'd guess between 10-15 years

The lights dim in the house when the factories down the road switch things on, but this doesn't usually cause the TI to disconnect. It's usually when things are plugged in, or the lights switched on/off - occasionally. But it is definitely something to do with power spikes that causes it to happen. I can make it happen 100% of the time by switching on my subwoofer. That's the only piece of equipment that is guaranteed to make it lose USB connection.

I have thought about buying a PCI-express USB hub, but I doubt it would make any difference. I will try it, though, but I believe the best 'fix' would be for the software developers to change the communication protocol so the Virus TI doesn't decide to completely disconnect any time there is a slight error in the USB connection. Just a thought.

Thanks, Jim.

Zitat von Ruari

I'm by no means an expert on this kind of thing but to me it sounds like an electricity/power management issue, for the sake of troubleshooting, do you have your equipment connected via some sort of surge protection?

If you are using Windows have you unticked the box marked "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power" in the Power Management page of the USB root hub?

Also if you are worried about sudden fluctuations in power you could maybe consider investing in an Uninterruptable Power Supply, here's an article from Sound on Sound about them, it may help.

I've tried all of the above, apart from using an Uninterruptable Power Supply (thanks for the link.)

It is not connected through any surge protection equipment. Might be worth looking into some.

All Power Saving options have been disabled, aswell as 'Selective Suspend' in advanced power saving options. "Allow computer to turn off..." has been disabled on all USB ports. The Virus TI has been connected to every available connection even wtih no other USB hardware connected, but still exhibits the same problem.

I think I'll try the option of investing in a PCI-e USB 2.0 card and see if that makes a difference. Maybe it will provide enough current to the USB port, or another option I haven't yet tried is the special feature on my Gigabyte motherboard. It has the option to increase the available current supplied to the front USB connectors for things like iPhone charging. Worth a try, I guess.

Thanks, Jim.

Zitat von Roby31

All the three options (surge protection, UPS and dedicated card taking its power from the PCI/PCIe bus instead of the main mainboard rails) could help very much in your electrical problems and also be a decent investment if you intend on using your computer for whatever purpose. If the power is indeed so unstable, it is not only interrupting your workflow, it's probably wearing your computer too

It's actually not that bad. The lights hardly flicker (apart from in the early morning when the factories switch on some equipment down the road.) I think it might just be localised noise on the grid, like voltage drops when people switch on high current devices like ovens, or I switch on my huge 15" subwoofer which runs off the same strip socket as the Virus. It tends to do it at random intervals during projects too, so I was guessing it was something to do with USB errors (maybe a bad connection on the back of the Virus - it is a bit loose when plugging it in but has always felt a little loose since I bought it.)

Anyway, thanks to all for the great replies. I'll try some of those methods for dealing with the issue.

Zitat von AtonyB

- You could also have a dodgy PSU for your virus... Is it Desktop or Keyboard (ie internal psu or external)?

- Surge protection is an obvious tester, too, as surge protecting plugs are cheap and possibly you want one for your virus anyway.

- Do you have much going on with your USB? Are there lots of devices on it (what is there?) - It might be borderline with what you have and noise on the powerline manages to reduce bandwidth by JUST enough (perhaps...). If you can force the error repeatably by switching lights or whatever you might want to try removing stuff like webcams, sound cards, even mice and keyboards (you dont need to remove everything) and see if you can still force the error after. This doesn't rule out an issue with the USB on your motherboard (which I assume you are using), so if you don't mind the speculation you can still go for a PCI(e) USB card.

- If all else fails, I might buy the virus off you

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It's actually been fine for the past few days with the odd crash here and there. I've ordered a surge protected strip socket and will test it with that.

I have many devices plugged into USB ports but that doesn't seem to make a difference whether they're plugged in at the same time or not. I have the Virus plugged into its own two-port USB hub connected directly to the motherboard with no other device connected that would otherwise share bandwidth. It's using about 62% of the bandwidth as reported by Windows.

I have one spare PCI-e x1 slot so will invest in a USB controller to test it.

Thanks, Jim.

Please please please... I am down on my knees right now, begging... (well, at the computer keyboard)

Please could the Access team possibly think about changing the USB communication protocol for the Virus TI?

This IS the main issue I believe, since other USB devices don't crash every time I switch my subwoofer on. The Virus TI just decides that as soon as there's a slight USB error that it will completely disconnect the Virus from the computer and require itself to be switched off and on again.

I am sure you have a lot on your plate with other updates, but maybe this might be a quick fix instead of people having to buy extra PCI-e USB cards just to get the buggy Virus TI working. I have very little experience with computer programming, but surely it would just be the simple case of writing the protocol so that the Virus TI retries connection a few times when there's a tiny error - instead of completely disconnecting itself?

Just an idea anyway. Might solve the issue for many people.

One more post:

1. The Virus TI has done the 'USB connection lost' for the past hour - once every 2 or 3 mins.

2. It is now deciding to play the arpeggios slow, then fast, trying to catch up with itself.

3. I have solo'd one sound which is playing through USB output 1 - there are additional 'clicks' coming from USB output 3 when nothing is even routed to those outputs. I'm guessing this is caused by USB errors.

There seems to be a USB bandwidth problem for the Virus TI which is causing it to mess up all the time. I have the TI running on its own USB port which is not shared. I have done ALL optimisations. My power supply is perfect (unless I am plugging/unplugging large pieces of equipment like my subwoofer that cause a tiny power spike.)

I have never ever seen any other USB device have so many issues, and have never had to solve any issues by investing in additional hardware just to get them working correctly.

I have had enough. I am shelving my Virus TI for now, and will probably sell it in the coming months.

Thanks for all the advice and help from everyone who has replied to this thread.

Jim.

Here's a demo of the gremlins currently inhabiting my Virus TI:-

TI Problem 1.mp3
This is when it decided to carry on playing one of the arpeggio chords over the top of everything else. Some clicks are also present.

TI Problem 2.mp3
Finally playing the arpeggio correctly, but it decided to carry on clicking through USB output 3, which NOTHING was even routed to! The synth was playing through USB output 1.

TI Problem 3.mp3
About 3 minutes into the project and I started to fiddle with the EQ on the hihats. Guess what... USB connection lost.

Enjoy the samples!

Zitat von AtonyB

Trying to pick through what you said - I assume that you arent actually using a 'hub' for the virus as you cant. Depending on your motherboard you will probably only have one USB device on your pc, so although you are using a different pair of connectors, you will probably be using the same bandwidth. Although the bandwidth usage isnt exactly critically high, the poor condition of your mains power may be a final straw to break that camels back (at least for enough of the time to disrupt the connection).

Are any of your devices likely to vary the bandwidth they use (e.g. video devices)?

Also, has your virus always done this?

Tried on every single USB port with no other devices connected - in case it was a bandwidth issue. I know two ports on the motherboard are definitely not hubs (as some motherboards have hubs instead of dedicated ports on them.) The two USB 3.0 ports on the motherboard don't allow the Virus TI software to install as it doesn't even detect that it's connected.

I moved the USB cable and kept it away from other cables to reduce any possible RF interference. I cleaned the connectors and it made a bit of a difference. It would play properly without the arpeggio speeding up and slowing down, with a LOT less crackling on USB audio output 3.

I'm now buying a dedicated PCI-e card with USB 2.0 connectors, and will also purchase a good quality surge protected strip socket for the PC and Virus TI. Will let you know how it goes.

Oh, and yes. I have always had this problem with the Virus TI, in different houses aswell as with different computer systems. It just seems to be more severe now than when I first bought it, and now is interfering with creativity a lot more

Zitat von AtonyB

Yes, please do, will be interesting to see...

It's running a bit smoother on the PCI-e USB card, but still getting "USB connection has been lost" occasionally. There is still crackling on USB audio output 3 in Cubase and the odd Arpeggio timing error (running at half speed then double speed to catch up) but it's not as often or as severe as before.

Still waiting for my Power Conditioner to arrive. They don't have it in stock but say it should be here by the end of February. *crosses fingers.

Zitat von AtonyB

Is your PC reasonably powerful, too (specs)? You do say USB 3 is crackling, maybe that comes at the end of the data and doesn't always make it through...

Promising that the USB PCIe card improved it, though...

Core i7 3.33GHz Extreme 6-core
12GB Corsair RAM 1333MHz (running at 1066MHz for stability)
MOTU 24i/o interface
StarTech USB 2.0 PCI-e card (for the Virus TI)
SSD hard drive for running Windows and projects from.

I'm using a 1kW Thermaltake PSU, so voltage drops caused by power drain shouldn't be a problem. My PC runs pretty cool in terms of temperature too.

I think there are two problems with the Virus that I have seen many people have:

1. USB bandwidth problems caused by many factors - I might try using only two USB audio outputs into Cubase to solve this issue.
2. CPU power within the Virus TI not being adequate enough to play large patches or have as many loaded simultaneously, even if they aren't currently being played - This is harder to solve, since it means bouncing down audio then choosing the -Init- patch on every single channel before using another patch. Maybe investing in the TI2 might go towards solving this issue.