And This Time With Feeling: A Patch Editor Version of VC!!!

  • muzikman,


    While I appreciate your appeal for civility, I am the op of this thread and not once have I ever disrespected anyone from Access.


    User error? Please. I have been a user since January 2006, back when OS 1 was going to be the big fix for everyone. Over the years I have been fortunate enough to not have many of the problems that users have experienced, or at least found workarounds. However, recently (over the last year or so), I have been experiencing audio crackling to a degree that makes Virus Control unusable. I'm talking single patches and low polyphony. Jorg from Access Music has already confirmed that crackling occurs when using VC that does not occur in stand alone. In regard to this his response was (copied directly from my email):

    Quote

    I cannot offer you a solution for this at this point

    Please do not derail this thread (which is on the 4th page and has had over 800 views) because ONE user vented their frustration in a somewhat rude way.

  • User error? Please. I have been a user since January 2006, back when OS 1 was going to be the big fix for everyone. Over the years I have been fortunate enough to not have many of the problems that users have experienced, or at least found workarounds. However, recently (over the last year or so), I have been experiencing audio crackling to a degree that makes Virus Control unusable. I'm talking single patches and low polyphony. Jorg from Access Music has already confirmed that crackling occurs when using VC that does not occur in stand alone.

    It could still be "user error" at this point. Or, let's rather say, configuration issues, or hardware incompatibilities.


    What I'm convinced is that there exist some computers running VC flawlessly, starting by the computers at Access. I can't imagine them releasing it without seeing it working!


    I have a suggestion:



    Why not make a list of the configurations of these working computers? I mean, for each working PC, one would write its full hardware list, Windows version, VC version, and sequencer name and version.
    Let's go further and also make a list of the non-working configurations (I think this one is going to increase a lot faster than the first one :D ).


    This would allow interesting comparisons, and may allow some folks to solve their issues by upgrading their PC to make it work with the Virus. I don't think Access has a lot of PCs to test the VC. But we have! So this could be a great help for everyone, because by doing this, we're going to understand what's wrong on the non-working PCs.


    If you guys think it's a good idea, I'm going to create a dedicated thread. Unless it's already been done?


    Cheers

  • Ace17,


    I think you make some valid points and suggestions. However, Jorg at Access has already confirmed that crackling appears in VC when there is none in standalone. He tested a patch I gave him on a TI2 and a Mac running Cubase. I run a TI1 on a PC running Live. He still got crackling on the patch I gave him and confirmed there was none when using midi/audio outs. Jorg attributes the crackling to a dsp overload. While this may be the case, I am getting crackling on simple patches in a way that never used to happen before. Here is Jorg's response in full:

    Quote

    I was able to take a look at this file in depth today. I actually did this here on my Mac setup with a TI2 first and I definitely also get these crackles. It is actually way easier to determine once you take of the distortion effect of FX1. Since Ableton Live seems not have a "list view" for Midi events (or I might not know the program well enough), I exported the clip as a Midi file and imported this into Cubase - which has a list editor. The reason why I did this is fairly simple: I already had cases, where (for whatever reason) doubled notes got recorded into a Midi sequence, which would automatically double the amount of voices needed, since also the notes are doubled. This was not the case with this Ableton Live clip. However as mentioned above I get these crackles here as well. I even clearly can hear notes being cut off, which is a clear indicator that in this particular case there's just too much going on.
    The 2nd test I did: I unloaded the Virus TI Control plugin (in Cubase in this case) and routed the Midi file with the pattern to the TI Synth port, so basically like running the TI as a normal hardware synth, but without the USB interface after copying the sound into one of the RAM Banks of this TI2 here. I can also clearly hear notes cutting off, but so far I did not hear the crackling. This sound is still putting extreme load on the DSP due to the features used and the UNISON being on 4, so the amount of voices created is immense and just too much - hence the cutting off of notes being played. I will try to find out what might be the cause for this crackling when using the TI Control Plugin, but again: even when using the TI2 like a normal hardware synth I clearly hear the unit cutting off voices, since the load is just too much.

    And then:

    Quote

    I forwarded both your Ableton Live session as well as your report in general to our R&D department. I'm sorry to say but things like that simply will take time to investigate and to address. I ask for your understanding.
    First our engineers need to find out what is causing this exactly and then they can try to address this.


    I cannot offer you a solution for this at this point other than you trying to keep the amount of voices low if possible.


    Again, the problem I'm having is that these crackles persist despite patch complexity/polyphony. I did send Jorg a complex patch, but mostly because I believed that the results would be reproducible. If the problem in fact has something to do with the Virus running out of resources, the fact remains that it only causes audio glitches in Virus Control and not standalone.


    I guess the question that I have is: Is anyone actually using Virus Control without problems?

  • I guess the question that I have is: Is anyone actually using Virus Control without problems?

    I don't usually use Virus Control, but if you send a project file (is it possible to attach files on this forum?) showing the crackles, I'll be happy to give it a try on my setup (VirusTI 1, Windows XP , Ableton Live). I'll tell you if it works!

  • Ace17,


    Thanks for the offer :) ! I will try and PM you a little later tonight or tomorrow. I'm pretty sure you can't load many file types on the forum itself.


    This test should be interesting because Ruari (who also chimed in on this thread) tested the patch I'm going to send you and reported no crackling. Jorg, however, reproduced the crackling on a setup similar to Ruari's (if my memory serves me correctly). If you report no crackling, I'll be a lot more willing to accept that this issue stems from variances in users' setups.

  • +1 The integration as a plug is just to F'n Buggy and theres all kinds of crappy issues... really prevents the create workflow.. I say release a version that only allows editing of the patches. I really could care less if I have to track the audio through my other audio interface. Already have to do that anyway because Virus doesn't let you bounce in place.


    The virus on the other hand is a great amazing sounding synth

  • There is an editor available for the ctrlr. Look up ctrlr and find the virus ti panel. I haven't used the virus panel but I've used others and they are awesome once you get them setup right.

  • I'm a brand spanking new TI2 owner, but a long time Virus B owner (1999) and I've been happily using a custom controller setup within various apps like Fruity Studio rather than any third party plugins. I've been very happy with this setup, especially since I'm running under Linux ;)


    I can't imagine the USB audio driver working correctly anytime soon, and I would love to be able to control the synth using a VSTi in Reaper / Fruity Studio with Wine and the TI's hardware audio outs.


    I'm going to try and get this running under virtual box (I've seen the other threads) but I'm hopeful and very comfy with Linux so who knows?


    It's a serious gamble for any hardware manufacturer to tie their product to specific (and fickle) operating system manufacturers, because in a few years their hardware is unusable if the OS changes enough.


    My Virus B runs under Linux ;)


    I certainly don't want to spend another $800 for another windows box to kick around.


    Also if it's interesting for anyone at all, I'm also a programmer and wouldn't mind working on a driver for linux and pulseaudio/jack2 hint hint...


    :D


    ~~~~ EDIT ~~~~


    Well of course I am coming late to the party: http://ctrlr.org/access-virus-ti-snow/</a>


    Thank you Dasfaker !!!!

  • I have stopped purchasing and using all Korg products because they (twice) dropped support for a new piece of gear and left users hanging in the wind.


    Unfortunately access doesn't seem to listen to what we want. Part of making a great product is to keep making it better.


    IMO, I think access will use the same business strategy as Steinberg, NI and a few others where they will make $$ off any "New" features instead of realizing that we already paid for it. ( I will in all fairness say that they haven't so far and have been pretty awesome with the OS Updates)


    I purchased my Ti because I wanted seamless integration to my computer. There is nothing seamless about it and while I will admit, it is somewhat stable now, I have not been using it as much as I should because I have to spend more time making sure it works..


    This product could have gone from being great to being Legendary. but, they already got your $2.5k in the bank.. :evil: