weak oscillators

Zitat von Ruari

Bag pula - Your user name has an interesting Romanian to English translation, yet it means something completely different if you were Malaysian.

Now I'm interested to know, are you Romanian or are you Malaysian?

i was born in Malaysia ..

Zitat von Marc

the classic oscillators are named "classic oscillators" because they were the first ones in the virus A. they are not supposed to change, they are a legacy. don't you understand that we introduced new oscillators for sound designers to have a new set of oscillators? that's why there is a new saw tooth oscillator, that's why there is an alternative option for a sine wave oscillator without aliasing.
marc

Marc, I'm sorry but your post seems too miss the point.
I understand you kept the original oscillators as a legacy but you really can't say there is a new sawtooth oscillator, or a new square, triangle, ...
Agreed, you have the hypersaw now (and the wavetable, grain and formant osc's which are great), but that's not really like a new set of simple basic analog emulation oscillators.

I think the OP is really more focused on some strong basic analog-style oscillators and less about the digital stuff.
When you compare the sound of the basic TI sawtooth / square with some other synths, you can definitely hear that the TI's seem to miss out on certain things. They lack some punch and are not as aggressive and in you're face as some other soft synths and certainly in comparison with real hardware synths. It's not a huge difference but it's a difference nonetheless.
I'm talking about the basic oscillator's here - NO FX/saturation/EQ/...

I have experience with almost all the soft synths available and a lot of hardware including MS-20, Voyager, ARP2600, EMS, Nord Lead, MS-2000, or even more basic stuff as the Korg EMX, Mopho or MFB. Please understand I don't want to sound cocky but I'm just mentioning this because it's important to now that I'm not just starting out with synthesis and I have actually heard and played the real classics.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my virus!
The whole concept is a dream come true and I can make some great sounds with it but I too have to admit it lends itself more towards digital sounds, or warm analogue pads.
Getting a really punchy analogue lead - like just one oscillator without using unison/detuning or without the stompbox effects or chorus, ... - is much harder and I tend to use other synths for that.
And yes, I could use the saturation / stomboxes for making it more dirty but that also results in a more characteristic distortion sound and that way you go even more away from clean, punchy analogue. You don't always want to put some distortion over a sound to make it aggressive, the core sound and strength need to come from the oscillator itself.
So I too would love to have a more punchy, aggressive set of oscillator's - for example called vintage sawtooth and vintage square (oooh now somebody's going to mention "yeah but not EVERY real analogue synth sounds punchy and aggressive" - I know ).

Let me know what you think.
All the best

Zitat von neuromodulator

But you do have those, I think. A 1-density hypersaw and I believe the "Sine" and "Eat Pulse" wavetables.

I already compared those to the classic oscillators and the difference is barely hearable. Believe me, I turned the virus TI inside out trying to get more punchyness

edit - let me be really clear:
I DO think the virus TI is one of the best digital synths out there - if not THE best.
It's just that REAL analogue sounds will never be exactly right on a digital synth imho.

Zitat von Sarrova

Marc, I'm sorry but your post seems too miss the point.
I understand you kept the original oscillators as a legacy but you really can't say there is a new sawtooth oscillator, or a new square, triangle, ...
Agreed, you have the hypersaw now (and the wavetable, grain and formant osc's which are great), but that's not really like a new set of simple basic analog emulation oscillators.

I think the OP is really more focused on some strong basic analog-style oscillators and less about the digital stuff.
When you compare the sound of the basic TI sawtooth / square with some other synths, you can definitely hear that the TI's seem to miss out on certain things. They lack some punch and are not as aggressive and in you're face as some other soft synths and certainly in comparison with real hardware synths. It's not a huge difference but it's a difference nonetheless.
I'm talking about the basic oscillator's here - NO FX/saturation/EQ/...

I have experience with almost all the soft synths available and a lot of hardware including MS-20, Voyager, ARP2600, EMS, Nord Lead, MS-2000, or even more basic stuff as the Korg EMX, Mopho or MFB. Please understand I don't want to sound cocky but I'm just mentioning this because it's important to now that I'm not just starting out with synthesis and I have actually heard and played the real classics.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my virus!
The whole concept is a dream come true and I can make some great sounds with it but I too have to admit it lends itself more towards digital sounds, or warm analogue pads.
Getting a really punchy analogue lead - like just one oscillator without using unison/detuning or without the stompbox effects or chorus, ... - is much harder and I tend to use other synths for that.
And yes, I could use the saturation / stomboxes for making it more dirty but that also results in a more characteristic distortion sound and that way you go even more away from clean, punchy analogue. You don't always want to put some distortion over a sound to make it aggressive, the core sound and strength need to come from the oscillator itself.
So I too would love to have a more punchy, aggressive set of oscillator's - for example called vintage sawtooth and vintage square (oooh now somebody's going to mention "yeah but not EVERY real analogue synth sounds punchy and aggressive" - I know ).

Let me know what you think.
All the best

Alles anzeigen

100% agreed Sarrova knows exactly what he's talking about : "You don't always want to put some distortion over a sound to make it
aggressive, the core sound and strength need to come from the oscillator
itself.". Great example !!

Maybe the saw sounds , oscillators and filters of Roland JP-8080 will be the biggest addition to improve Ti sounds.I see a lot of studios that normally use the JP-8080 rack combined with Virus Ti rack and Nord Lead 2x rack, XV-5080... They know that Virus TI is missing some filters and oscillators ..etc . I really can't understand how Omnisphere was updated with 50 filters until now and the mooore expensive Virus stays with only 5 filters over the years .. Yep and now all studios are using Omni ....

Zitat von bagpula

100% agreed Sarrova knows exactly what he's talking about :
"When you compare the sound of the basic TI sawtooth / square with some
other synths, you can definitely hear that the TI's seem to miss out on
certain things. They lack some punch and are not as aggressive and in
you're face as some other soft synths and certainly in comparison with
real hardware synths. It's not a huge difference but it's a difference
nonetheless.
I'm talking about the basic oscillator's here - NO FX/saturation/EQ/"

"You don't always want to put some distortion over a sound to make it
aggressive, the core sound and strength need to come from the oscillator
itself.". Great exampleS !!

Maybe the saw sounds , oscillators and filters of Roland JP-8080 will be the biggest addition to improve Ti sounds.I see a lot of studios that normally use the JP-8080 rack combined with Virus Ti rack and Nord Lead 2x rack,.. XV-5080... They know that Virus TI is missing some filters and oscillators ..etc . I really can't understand how Omnisphere was updated with 50 filters until now and the mooore expensive Virus stays with only 5 filters over the years .. Yep and now all studios are using Omni ....

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Zitat von boreg

@Sarrova, your post is spot on! Agreed 100%.

You really can't? Do you realize that it's much easier to add features to a software product, than cram stuff into limited RAM and horsepower that a hardware synth has?
Especially considering that general-purpose CPUs keep getting faster, while Virus hardware is basically unchanged since it was introduced in 2005
[yes, I know about 25% CPU increase in the TI2, but really, it's nothing compared to increase in PC CPU speeds during that period]

i don't know if is more harder or not . You can't prove that is more harder. And this is because you don't know what operating system Virus is using . Maybe is Linux. For example Motif XS is running under Linux. And adding new filters and new OSC takes little space. Maybe a few mega bytes or so . All i know is that Access already have a huge experience in updating this board . So i think they update this board so often because this process is not really so hard .. . I think that Access needs just to work a few weeks for a new set of oscillators & filters . I can't wait

Zitat von Ace17

I'm a software developer for real-time embedded systems, and I can clearly tell you don't have a clue what you're talking about when it comes to software development. Of course it is harder!

Could you please explain what difference does the operating system make? By the way, did you notice that the file firmware.bin, used by the Virus firmware updater, was only 8MB big?

A friend of mine used to work in a concurrent synthesizer company. He told me that one oscillator took in general at least 3 monthes to develop. And that it was far from being easy. Try to read some papers about alias-free sound synthesis.

That's the best recipe for getting bugs. I'm sick about people crying at Access because their setup isn't working, e.g "Access should be ashamed", "the product simply does not work", "I'm selling it because I can't make music with it" ... while at the same time asking for new features.
Also, don't forget that once a new feature is released, you can never change how it sounds. You can't remove it either. I'd rather have to stick with carefully designed features.

By the way, with all due respect, could you please stop being an asshole? Don't you realize what you're saying is inappropriate, wrong, immature, and even insulting?

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About you're last conclusion .i'm not an asshole . Maybe you're an asshole if you want what i'm saying is very appropriate , right. mature ...I think i'm telling the true ..just my personal opinion . I'm the customer i have bought this product so considering my personal opinion i have suggestions. I can't be a slave of this product , to shut up like a slave and to accept everithing like a blind person with ,my eyes shut

You say :

"A friend of mine used to work in a concurrent synthesizer company. He
told me that one oscillator took in general at least 3 monthes to
develop. And that it was far from being easy. Try to read some papers
about alias-free sound synthesis."

so please tell me the name of you 're friend and the name of that company I think you're lying and i really don't care if developing a new set of classic oscillators takes 3 months for real. ..3 or 5 months is not so much you lazy boy..This is for Virus future success Virus to remain the nr 1 selling synth... So yes !! my attitude can bring something new to this synth. That's why is positive .While you;re attitude is just to attack me..That's why is negative .. Ask you're lazy ass, why do the Japanese work so hard ?. And the answer is > "Work hard and the world respects you. Work hard and you can have anything you want." . What ? you're lazy attitude is about not working ? and you become afraid when you think that someone works 3 months for an oscillator ?...

Zitat von Ruari

@ Bagpula

[Blockierte Grafik: http://static.someecards.com/someecards/images/feed_assets/4deff0b8c60b7.jpg]

@ Everyone else

[Blockierte Grafik: http://x0b.xanga.com/599f30f536033234587314/z185211697.jpg]

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EXCUSE ME . i'm just asking . Is that really you ?? in that second photo ??.... . I have a special answer for you to calm you down because you look so scared in that second photo. Virus is just perfect . Virus don't need any update . The Virus oscillators are the best oscillators ever . No other synth oscillators have the punch and aggressiveness of Virus oscillators . Are you happy now ?

Ehm .. I'm new here and this seems like a really awkward forum.

I did let you now a very well explained opinion and instead of discussing this on a more serious manner all I get back is a discussion about the difficulty of updating the OS, people who are completely ignoring my comments and now Marc from access even wants to close down this thread without giving even one reply to my post. If access wants to get some respect from this synth user, they could at least try to answer my questions. Now you're just saying: "I don't agree with you, the oscillators are perfect" without further explanation. Sorry but that seems a little childish to me. If you really need some proof (which would be strange cause you should now your own products inside out) I can upload a demo which compares the basic oscillators to some other synths. I hope we can talk about the original subject with some in depth info and well constructed come backs and reply's. This can only help access to make their products better.

Hope to hear back from you Marc and all other users who are willing to discuss this subject.
ps thanks to users who did appreciate my comment.

@ muziman 2008: people are dying all the time. Should this mean we can't discuss normal subjects anymore?
What would you say if your boss heavily underpaid you? "Doesn't matter, I don't want to discuss this, theres people dying in the world and living in poverty!"
Don't want to argue with you about this subject, but you can't throw in those empty quotes. There meaningless really, just some one liners people say but when certain things affect your personal live you wouldn't think about them. And if you would, then you certainly wouldn't post this reply's but you would be in Africa right now really helping those people out. No disrespect man, just saying.
Now let's NOT start a discussion about that please, back to the OSCILLATORS!