PT8 out of Sync with Virus TI

    I asked marc from access to confirm or deny this problem months ago & got no reply...which kinda confirms that it does exist. The question is why is it taking sooooooo long to fix or indeed are they doing anything about it at all. As you said in your original post, it is a fundamental flaw with the synth & you would think it would be a top priority fix...I can only guess its not fixable & is probably a hardware issue : (

    Hello.



    This thread defines my experience in ProTools with Virus TI.


    Since I tried to configurate my Virus for PT there are some
    delay and sync problems in MIDI and audio. Virus TI seems
    to be buggy in PT after all, and I can't solve all those problems
    by my own - Thats why I'm going to ask Access for some help.


    In this situation I would like to describe an objective point of view for my session setup.
    You can download some examples of the audiostream bounced out from PT. (updated)



    1.) Audiostream crackles in RTAS-mode (Virus Control)


    The audiostream (USB/analog) generates crackles on receiving fast sequences of MIDI notes from PT.
    Holding a single note is all right, the sync is in time. The problem occurs as faster MIDI notes transmitting to Virus the worst it gets.
    In other words a fast MIDI playback generates clock problems in MIDI- and audioclock*.


    The conclucion of this:
    ARP-Patches are impossible to play.
    The MIDI tempo is completly out of sync from the host, the audiostream is crackling*.
    Same goes to fast MIDI receiving without ARP mode as I described in this thread.



    2.) No delay compensation for Virus Control in RTAS


    ProTools should be able to compensate this offset automaticly for usual RTAS Plugins.
    Instead of this I set an offset to get in sync with MIDI-tracks and other RTAS instruments.


    I routed the USB signal from Virus (LIVE mode) to an audiotrack:
    The signal from the MIDI note starts not from the very beginning (a) after recording (b)


    -> a-b selection
    -> Offset (ms/smpls)



    3.) global annotation


    I) I tried to make those internal syncs:
    Virus (master) thru SPDIF to UA2192 (slaved UA2192 SPDIF > slaved WC to 003 Rack)
    and Virus (master) thru 003 Rack (slaved 009 Rack SPDIF > slaved WC to UA2192)


    The audiostream thru SPDIF is totally broken with endless periodic crackles. Impossible to sync.



    II) Cubase 4.5 Studio is working fine in this configuration: Cubase as host and Virus Control as VST Plugin with delay compensation.
    Some other posts in the Access and DUC (Digidesign support) forums advice to similar problems with other sequencers.


    http://www.access-music.de/for…ead&threadID=339&pageNo=3
    http://www.access-music.de/for…?page=Thread&threadID=479
    http://duc.digidesign.com/showthread.php?t=247995



    III) PT is using a predetermined driver, the hardware of Virus TI can maybe not sync/convert it correctly.
    There is probably no possibility to get in sync with or without WordClock for Virus and PT.


    It should still be possible to get a clean signal if Access will match the internal driver for all analog outputs with a slave controlled Virus Control.


    The other path could be a slave controlled Virus Control (audio and MIDI) thru USB in view of the audio driver from Digidesign.
    I hope Access can get it!




    Please download my updated PT-session and some audio files:


    *2 audio examples, 1 PT-session @ ~ 16 Mb
    http://www.cl-audio.eu/tmp/ptsync.zip

    Aether,


    I think I found out the cause of your problem. It may be a "problem" with the Virus TI, but a different problem.


    I was finally able to test out the Virus with an 003 Rack, but on a different computer. Pro Tools LE 8.0.1 on Windows Vista. Everything worked fine as long as I didn't enable beat clock and clocked the Virus off of the 003, so the Virus was slave and the 003 master. When I had the Virus as the master, I experienced the same problems that you described and posted audio clips for. When I had enabled beat clock in Pro Tools, it just sounded a mess. I would assume that the Virus is already getting some kind of MIDI sync through the USB connection. Whatever, though, not worried about that.


    So my suggestion to you would be to at least just test using the 003 and Virus, without your UA2192, with the 003 as master and the Virus slave to see if you still experience your problems. If you are still experiencing issues, then the problem may lie deeper within your system or possible your audio hardware. However, should you have the same results as me, you can try slaving both the 003 and Virus to the UA2192 so that it is the master clock to everything in your system. That may solve the problem also.


    Hope that this information helps and await to hear your results.

    Zitat von donnydonny

    I was finally able to test out the Virus with an 003 Rack, but on a different computer. Pro Tools LE 8.0.1 on Windows Vista. Everything worked fine as long as I didn't enable beat clock and clocked the Virus off of the 003, so the Virus was slave and the 003 master. When I had the Virus as the master, I experienced the same problems that you described and posted audio clips for. When I had enabled beat clock in Pro Tools, it just sounded a mess. I would assume that the Virus is already getting some kind of MIDI sync through the USB connection. Whatever, though, not worried about that.

    thanks for pointing that out. in logic/cubase/live etc. it doesn't matter if you send clock events to virus control or the midi ports while virus control is running. the events are being filtered out. but maybe that's different in protools. when you say beat clock, do you mean midi clock?


    best, marc

    Donnydonny


    Yes with the midi beat clock enabled it is a mess BUT even when you turn it off the arps still jump out of sync randomly. I'm sure if you listen carefully you WILL hear it unless you have a hearing problem. If you, access or anyone else on this forum can tell me exactly how to configure my pro tools system so that the arps are consistently in sync I'm all ears because I have tried just about every imaginable scenario without any luck. At the risk of repeating myself I can run the VST version of VC on the same computer/synth without any sync issues so either I dont have pro tools set up properly or the RTAS version of VC has serious sync issues. I have been using pro tools for 8 years & run hundreds of plug-ins...Virus Control is the ONLY one that has these issues...go figure.

    Berni,


    Like I described in my previous post, it works fine for me ONLY when I have the Virus clocking off of the 003R (Virus TI 'Audio Clock Source' set to Auto) and with MIDI Beat Clock disabled for the Virus. Clocking the 003R off of the Virus TI causes the arp to go out of sync and do other random things. My tinnitus may be out of control, but that doesn't mean I can't tell when an arp is out of sync. This DOES work for me but ONLY in the configuration that I described.

    Yeah thats how I have it set up but no cigar ; ( I listened to the mp3's you posted & even the second one does'nt sound right to me. You might also have let it go on a little longer than a couple of seconds, even my arps will stay in sync for a few bars but inevitably notes will be played that are out of sync. I don't know if any of the other posters to this thread who are having the same problems as me have come up with a solution but it will be interesting to see if Access come forward with one...nothing so far.

    I think Aether's problem might just be a hardware config problem. I'm anxious to hear is response. What other gear do you have in the mix other than your Digi hardware and Virus?

    Thanks for input everyone.


    Access forwarded my email internal to an engineer, it may takes some time to get response.


    The problem with offset is now cleared. I could solve it with Access and set a delay (delay plugin) on a audio or AUX track instead to set a delay on a MIDI track.
    For more information check the PT-Guide from Access for the right Virus TI configuration.




    Donnydonny, thanks for your posts


    I wrote on Monday, October 26th 2009, 8:46pm:
    "There is probably no possibility to get in sync with or without WordClock for Virus and PT"
    That means I disabled the clock from UA2192 and set "Internal" mode in PT (as Master).
    I don't set MIDI-Beatclock in PT to sync my Virus over MIDI, i just tried to configurate this.
    I don't have a MIDI 5-Pin connection to Virus at the moment.
    Virus Audio Clock is slaved (Auto).


    If you like to know how my system works you can read it in this thread at page 1.
    You said there is no big defference between our systems.
    Seriously: my system and its configuration is stable in Cubase, and all applications in PT as well.
    Just one thing...




    Berni, Donnydonny,


    one thing is really strange:
    PT never showed me the MIDI-port from my 003 Rack+, but all other USB MIDI-interfaces. How about you guys?
    I don't hope there is an broken or invisible MIDI-port that interrupts the Virus. Special from 003 Rack+.
    Please check this and post right here which version/edition of 003 Rack do you have exactly.

    I'm not doubting that your system is working properly. What I meant from a "hardware config" problem was that there's probably just some setting on the Virus/003/computer that you need to set or change to resolve your sync issues.


    I have seen that missing MIDI port before with Digidesign firewire interfaces and I'm confident that that isn't conflicting with the Virus in any way. You said that you disabled the clock from the 2192, what connections do you still have, then, between that and your 003R+?

    OK, well everyone has had there say (apart from access) & I'm sure there is NO setting that can cure the problem otherwise you or access would be able to tell us about it. I reported this problem to access support over a year ago & have still not had an answer. At this point I'm convinced it's a hardware issue with the TI that is not fixable. If I'm wrong lets hear a solution access...

    Donnydonny,


    Virus (AutoSync, USB) > 003 Rack (Master) > D/A
    Virus (AutoSync, USB) > 003 Rack (Master, SPDIF) > SPDIF > UA2192 (Slave, SPDIF) > D/A
    Virus (AutoSync, USB) > 003 Rack (Slave, SPDIF) > SPDIF > UA2192 (Master, SPDIF) > D/A
    Virus (AutoSync, USB) > 003 Rack (Slave, WC) > SPDIF > UA2192 (Master, WC) > D/A ((>> Default <<))
    Virus (AutoSync, USB) > 003 Rack (Master, WC) > SPDIF > UA2192 (Slave, WC) > D/A
    Virus (AutoSync, USB) > 003 Rack (Slave, WC) > ADAT > RME9632 (Slave, WC) > SPDIF > UA2192 (Master, WC) > D/A
    Virus (AutoSync, USB) > 003 Rack (Master, WC) > ADAT > RME9632 (Slave, WC) > SPDIF > UA2192 (Slave, WC) > D/A
    Virus (AutoSync, USB) > 003 Rack (Slave, WC) > ADAT > RME9632 (Master, WC) > SPDIF > UA2192 (Slave, WC) > D/A
    Virus (AutoSync, USB) > 003 Rack (Slave, WC) > SPDIF > RME9632 (Slave, WC) > SPDIF > UA2192 (Master, WC) > D/A
    Virus (AutoSync, USB) > 003 Rack (Master, WC) > SPDIF > RME9632 (Slave, WC) > SPDIF > UA2192 (Slave, WC) > D/A
    Virus (AutoSync, USB) > 003 Rack (Slave, WC) > SPDIF > RME9632 (Master, WC) > SPDIF > UA2192 (Slave, WC) > D/A
    Virus (No VC, SPDIF) > RME9632 (Slave, SPDIF) > D/A
    Virus (No VC, SPDIF) > 003 Rack (Slave, SPDIF) > D/A
    Virus (No VC, SPDIF) > UA2192 (Slave, SPDIF) > D/A


    Virus (AutoSync, USB) > RME9632 (Slave, WC) > SPDIF > UA2192 (Master, WC) > D/A (Works in Cubase)



    Berni,


    I agree with you.
    I hope Access can do something for PT users soon.

    hello


    i just want to tell us i got the same problem with my mbox pro with a new mac pro
    no solution work for i try all off them and now my polar is unusable i think i going to sell it


    it s truth there no rtas compatibility


    i also try to convert the rtas plug from a vst and the problem still the same

    This is a little abstract to configure a solid sync of VC and PT.
    Keep in mind: This guide will not fix the ARP issue of PT and VC.


    Really important is to set "LIVE Mode" to eliminate the most crackles and sync troubles in your audio stream.
    LIVE Mode helps you to get a lower latency for monitoring or playback.


    You have now one of two options for a well synced VC under PT:


    1. Set a defined* latency for all Virus MIDI tracks / located at: Event > MIDI Track Offsets
    2. or Route all tracks excepting Virus monitor busses to a single bus and set a defined* latency with the plugin "TimeAdjuster"
    Personally i prefer the second option. You are free to choose your own workflow.




    *this is a little guide that will help you to get the effective latency from Virus (VC) for your system.


    Create a "MIDI Track", "Audio Track" and a "Instrument Track" with VC.
    Run VC and prepare an INIT-Patch: Set OSC1 to a pulse and set the OSC balance to -100%.
    Make shure to set the outputs of VC to USB.
    Route the outputs of VC to a "Audio Track".
    Go into "Grid Mode" and create a MIDI pattern.
    Create a MIDI note exactly at the beginning of the grid.
    Record the audio stream from Virus TI to your "Audio Track" fom the beginning of the grid.
    Zoom in to the grid, where your audio stream starts.
    Select the range from the the beginning of the grid until the transients of the recorded pulse starts.
    Your cursor should set to "Min:Secs" to get the latency in milliseconds, located at length*
    So, this is your effective latency.

    This is absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable! Not to mention false advertising on the part of Access. If you're going to say that something is compatible with protools then make sure it is FULLY compatible. I've had trouble with Sync issues since I bought this thing, and so far I've received no proper response from Access!


    This is poor treatment to your customers and I see no reason why we shouldn't all report this to the better business bureau!


    I want my money back

    I have the same problem running pt8.03 on windows 7.


    Dual core 4.3, FasttrackUltra8r.


    I have a midiman 8x8 with a bunch of midi gear, no sync issues with any of my other gear, the PolarTI is all over the place.


    What's up Marc/access?