Virus TI Latency Issues with FL Studio - Clarification

  • Apologies if this has been discussed before. I did some searches and it looks like FL Studio users have been having some Latency problems with the Virus TI. They change their buffer settings as suggested, and still report issues.



    I am a FL Studio user and my soundcard is M-Audio Delta.



    1) Will I experience latency problems when I connect a Virus TI2 via USB and start playing it FL Studio?



    2) Just to clarify, if I get the Desktop (not keyboard) version, and I only use my FL Piano Roll to draw notes, will I still experience Latency, or does this only happen when playing from the Virus keyboard?



    Thanks in advance

  • Usually DAW-s compensate for latency inducing plugins by triggering them a little earlier when playing already recorded tracks. On top of that, VC has something called live mode, where latency is reduced but stability is reduced as well, for live recording (and monitoring) from a keyboard. Latency, USB load and other common issues with the Virus usually have to do more with the computer hardware and OS drivers than the DAW itself.

  • As I wrote, I will not be using the keyboard version. My main motivation for the Virus is to connect the desktop unit to my FL Studio and control the notes from FL Studio's Piano Roll. Do I need the Live mode for that?


    My intent is to add the Virus channel similar to any other channel, and have it play back in my playlist. I certainly don't want to record any sequence just so I'm able to insert it as a sample, I want the Virus channel to play back normally like any other channel.


    My system is Core i7 16 GB RAM, M-Audio Delta 2496, Windows 7. I will be getting the TI2 with the latest OS (5.x). Will I have any uncorrectable latency issues?


    When I think "total integration," I think total integration, i.e., I plug it in and don't worry about it. What I've seen about Virus is a lot of praise, followed by a lot of frustration, because the users can't get something as simple as synced playback to happen naturally. Thanks for any advice, I'm debating whether to get the Virus so it's good for my needs.


    P.S.: Can I get around the latency by using MIDI In/Out rather than USB?

  • Read: http://virus.info/forum/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=2859


    Short simplified answer: No. If you want total integration and the ability to use the virus as a VSTi, you're gonna have to switch DAW's. And this is not a virus problem, it's a FLStudio problem.

    DAW: Cubase 7.5 (x86/x64)
    OS:Windows 7 (64bit)
    CPU: Intel i7 930 @ 4.0GHz
    MB: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R
    RAM: 3x 2GB DDR3 @ 1600MHz
    GPU: MSI GTX 560 Ti Twin Frozr II 1GB DDR5
    HDD: Intel 320 120GB SSD, 2x Seagate 320GB (raid0)
    Sound: E-mu 1212M
    Monitoring: Dynaudio BM6A Mk2 + BM9S Sub
    DSP: UAD-2 Duo
    USB: Virus Ti, BCF2000, Novation Remote SL...

  • Thanks... very useful info...


    LmfC, your post was written a year ago, do you know if anything's changed, any updates since then? Is it still the case that the latest versions of FL Studio fail miserably with the VC?


    Are there any problems with latency in Cubase? just curious... thanks.

  • Thanks... very useful info...


    LmfC, your post was written a year ago, do you know if anything's changed, any updates since then?


    Like I sad, Image-line obviously has no intention to cater to professionals of any kind, and instead focus on the hobbyist/bedroom producer who does it all "in the box".
    I still own FLStudio, update regularly, and try every new version in hope it will eventually be fixed, but I switched to cubase years ago and honestly, after all this time, I doubt I'll be coming back.
    The problem with FL is the bad implementation of the PDC (plugin delay compensation). The reason for this is that FLstudio, although incredibly powerful today, is still, at it's core, a loop creation software it was a decade ago, and has kept the core engine which doesn't allow proper delay compensation. What FL does, and it does this badly, is read the plugin latency and adjust the mixer channel delay automatically. This, however, is far from ideal, as mixer channels are not fixed to a VST, making any re-routing a PITA. I've learned how tedious all this can be 1st hand when I tried using the virus inside FL combined with multiple effect VST plugins with different latencies (most VST plugins introduce a small amount of latency, some more that others). Also, when using plugins with multiple outputs (such as the virus) only the 1st channel is correctly synced.


    In short, FL has terrible PDC, and although one CAN make it work, it's tedious and time consuming.
    But even if image line somehow rebuilt FLStudio from the ground up and finally fixed this issue, until they add a real-time and batch export option, you're stuck with using edison wave recorder inside FL to record each virus track into wave and drop it back into the project. Personally, I bough the virus to be able to use it real-time and with no bouncing. So I bought Cubase.


    Zitat

    Are there any problems with latency in Cubase? just curious... thanks


    None whatsoever. Cubase keeps everything synced up perfectly. As do most other DAW's for that matter.

    DAW: Cubase 7.5 (x86/x64)
    OS:Windows 7 (64bit)
    CPU: Intel i7 930 @ 4.0GHz
    MB: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R
    RAM: 3x 2GB DDR3 @ 1600MHz
    GPU: MSI GTX 560 Ti Twin Frozr II 1GB DDR5
    HDD: Intel 320 120GB SSD, 2x Seagate 320GB (raid0)
    Sound: E-mu 1212M
    Monitoring: Dynaudio BM6A Mk2 + BM9S Sub
    DSP: UAD-2 Duo
    USB: Virus Ti, BCF2000, Novation Remote SL...

  • Thanks for the reply, how about Ableton? Does Ableton also have good support for the Virus?


    I'm deciding whether to get Ableton vs. Cubase. Ableton is closer to FL Studio in design. If it has good hardware support then I'll go for it.

  • Thanks for the reply, how about Ableton? Does Ableton also have good support for the Virus?


    I'm deciding whether to get Ableton vs. Cubase. Ableton is closer to FL Studio in design. If it has good hardware support then I'll go for it.


    I'm afraid my knowledge of Ableton is limited, as I only use it for live performance as a DJ tool, not for production. AFAIK it has PDC, but I did notice people having some issues with it on a few threads here. On the other hand, Access officially supports it (there's a live button in the virus VST specifically for ableton live), so you should be ok.... in theory :)


    However, I'm sure someone who uses Ableton Live as their main DAW can be of better help here....



    EDIT: Tried inserting it into a live project, and it seems to sync up fine. I notice it doesn't seem to have a real time export option, but there seems to be a workaround for that:
    http://www.djslyone.co.uk/2010…icks-real-time-rendering/

    DAW: Cubase 7.5 (x86/x64)
    OS:Windows 7 (64bit)
    CPU: Intel i7 930 @ 4.0GHz
    MB: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R
    RAM: 3x 2GB DDR3 @ 1600MHz
    GPU: MSI GTX 560 Ti Twin Frozr II 1GB DDR5
    HDD: Intel 320 120GB SSD, 2x Seagate 320GB (raid0)
    Sound: E-mu 1212M
    Monitoring: Dynaudio BM6A Mk2 + BM9S Sub
    DSP: UAD-2 Duo
    USB: Virus Ti, BCF2000, Novation Remote SL...

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von LfmC ()

  • I've read a lot of incorrect information in this thread LfmC seems to be very anti FLStudio. I will point out that I use my Virus TI Desktop (it makes no difference whether it is a desktop or a keyboard or whatever) in FL Studio just fine with no latency problems beyond what you have when you record from external hardware. What is more, I work with it with absolutely no stress or hassle - as I have been for most of the many years I have owned it (although It has improved over the years). Incidentally I usually use 10ms latency (i.e. 480 samples), a power of two buffer doesn't seem to make much difference to me anyway.


    Generally its not a problem, anyway, but when I'm using precisely timed arps I use live mode to preview stuff and get it all set up - then, as you should do, I take it out of live mode to record (as the delay in live mode is variable, wheras out of live mode it is fixed). As with any recording from hardware I then nudge the wave file on the play list if it is slightly out of time (fastest way to fix it, I find, even with automatic latency compensation).



    "My intent is to add the Virus channel similar to any other channel, and have it play back in my playlist. I certainly don't want to record any sequence just so I'm able to insert it as a sample, I want the Virus channel to play back normally like any other channel. "


    I'm confused by this comment, as you will have to record it eventually as you can't do offline rendering with the Virus.



    "P.S.: Can I get around the latency by using MIDI In/Out rather than USB? "


    This will put you in the situation you are with any other external hardware - all you end up with is the input latency of your soundcard + FL Studio.



    Also, you haven't said whether you are using analogue inputs, S/PDIF or the USB channels... I generally use S/PDIF as my main monitoring input, but lately the USB inputs have been just as seamless for me....

  • I've read a lot of incorrect information in this thread LfmC seems to be very anti FLStudio.


    And your answer:


    image line has stated that the fundamental flaws in FL latency compensation will not be addressed any time soon. we are aware of the situation but there is nothing we can do to address the problem, de-listing FL studio as a recommended host aside.
    marc



    EDIT: And no, I'm not against FL. If you read my posts you'd know I'm actually a huge fan and a long time expert user (from v2). What I am against is Image Line's vision of keeping FLstudio a program for amateurs and hobbyists, as I would like to see it grow to a professional standard like cubase/logic. But this will not happen until Image line decides to remake some if FL's shortcomings, one of the biggest being a fully working PDC.

    DAW: Cubase 7.5 (x86/x64)
    OS:Windows 7 (64bit)
    CPU: Intel i7 930 @ 4.0GHz
    MB: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R
    RAM: 3x 2GB DDR3 @ 1600MHz
    GPU: MSI GTX 560 Ti Twin Frozr II 1GB DDR5
    HDD: Intel 320 120GB SSD, 2x Seagate 320GB (raid0)
    Sound: E-mu 1212M
    Monitoring: Dynaudio BM6A Mk2 + BM9S Sub
    DSP: UAD-2 Duo
    USB: Virus Ti, BCF2000, Novation Remote SL...

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von LfmC ()

  • They have made some important steps recently - the next version which is now in beta will have even more midi support (directly linking midi imputs to FL 'ports', but I've had a VST that did that for me for years) - but I agree that they can randomly dig their heels in on random things. Bottom line is, though - and I don't know if im alone in this (maybe I am ??) but the Virus works smoothly, bug free and low latency on my system - always AT LEAST as good as any external hardware, except with the TI bit.

  • AtonyB, what do you mean when you say " I usually use 10ms latency (i.e. 480 samples),"
    Is that a configurable setting in FL? or in the TI?
    Regarding recording, I usually render my entire playlist in FL to my final song. I never record individual samples that can be dropped into the playlist later. My playlist contains my entire composition, and I don't bounce any individual tracks, I bounce the final complete MP3.
    My plan is to hook it up via USB. That's it, no MIDI and nothing fancy. Thanks

  • I just bought a Virus TI, hooked it up to my FL Studio, and here's my latency question:



    When I make my buffer size 512, the latency goes away, BUT I can't use it because there is terrible noise/distortion no matter what sample I play. Conversely, when I move my buffer size to the Max (8192), which is my normal setting, all the sounds are good and clean, but the latency is around 500 ms.



    I checked in Ableton and it's the same thing. At lower buffer sizes, the latency goes away but the distortion is awful. At higher buffer sizes, the latency is there but the sound is clean.



    I just want to get a normal clean sound with no distortions, and no audible latency, similar to how I use my other VSTs...

  • I'm guessing your USB bandwidth is not 100% yet, although it is enough for the Virus to get recognized and work with a big buffer. If another (on-board) device is sharing the same hub with the Virus, maybe it can be turned off? Another possibility is to get a USB2 expansion card for the computer and dedicate it to the Virus.
    Then again, maybe increasing the ASIO buffer will do the trick?