Virus TI running at 96khz

lool my personal opinion . I dont think there is a difference between 48 and 96 in synth sounds.

I think the difference BETWEEN 48 & 96 becomes just a little clear in mastering process, acoustic sounds and maybe reverbs or other mixing efx depending on quality.

So after you record your Virus inside your daw, maybe is better to close the Virus plugin and switch your other soundcard to 96 khz & 32 bits and continue your great work .

I think that your soundcard converters and your mixing&mastering experience will make the big difference . How you fatten and compress and EQ sounds...

there are some great world mixing mastering engineers that prefer 48 khz over 96 khz

Zitat von chilly7

but physical modeling software indeed works better at 96khz

If I understand correctly from previous posts by the moderators, the physical modeling bit IS done at a higher sampling rate (could be even higher than 96kHz), and it is downsampled later in the process, probably to save up on delay/reverb/etc. memory, and FX computing power. Please remember that whatever you do it is always low-pass filtered at around 20kHz, so according to Nyquist, you are covered.

I really doubt that this thing can be done without a major re-write so i would never hold my breath if i were you guys. The virus has a very, veeery outdated synth engine.

There are 2 year old soft synths like DCAM that can run circles around it. Ivy bridge came out, imagine whats next

Does it really need a rewrite to enable a couple of higher clock settings to the selection screen for those who don't care about the polyphony or output trade off?

People grossly misuse Nyquist with assumptions that were never EVER intended to be made. Nyquist holds water only where capturing audio is concerned and taking liberties with it in a digital production environment will give you wrong answers. 16bit is the distributable format, but we don't work in 16 bit now do we? Why is that? Obviously it's because working with more allows for less loss to inadvertently take place[u ]throughout the course of the digital production environment.[/u] It's a fool's move to accept 24bit (or 32bit FP for that matter) without question but deny working above 44k mistakenly citing Nyquist.

The wavetables of the Virus are more alias free than the classic oscillators which are really old now and haven't been updated. Yes, Synth Squad runs circles around it where aliasing and sonic quality are concerned but the interface of the Virus & mod matrix are better than any VST synth I ever used. The GUI and programmability are what makes me feel like I won't part ways with my Virus and just wish I could get that bit extra from it at my 88khz working rate without half assed work arounds that cut into productivity & ease of use.

I've posted this before, but this little experiment shows there is most certainly a difference using the Virus above 44khz. First half is 44khz, second half is generated at 48khz then downsampled to 44.

Virus-Saw-44k-vs-48k-source-downsampled.wav (right click, save as)

It's like taking a blanket off the tweeter and we are talking about a 147hz sawtooth with filter wide open. Oscilloscope & spectrum analyzer used in selecting the takes from many repeated hits to ensure the brightest & purest at each setting, as the virus varies with that.

The reality is, after speaking with Jorg it sounds like we won't see operation above 48k in the foreseeable future. He mentioned their priority with polyphony but I've always prefered quality over quantity and sure would enjoy my Ti2 getting the extra clock modes.
It'd be nice if they found some way to strengthen the core oscillators or (since I know backwards compatibility is importat to them) introduce a fresh set and filter activity that allows you to get the sound of the second half of that sample above even if working at 44 or 88.

Zitat von nms

People grossly misuse Nyquist with assumptions that were never EVER intended to be made. Nyquist holds water only where capturing audio is concerned and taking liberties with it in a digital production environment will give you wrong answers. 16bit is the distributable format, but we don't work in 16 bit now do we?

What do you do when you get a set of 16 bit normalized stems to mix? You convert them to 24bit (or 32 or whatever). The same way you can upsample the Virus track once you've captured it - which I know you do. I wouldn't mind having the 96/88.2kHz option although I don't know if I'd use it, it just seems to me that it requires a lot of investment and gains very little in comparison, which is why I totally understand Access' business decision, especially with the workaround I mentioned. I'd really like to see them concentrate on fixing bugs in the features that are already implemented...

Zitat von flabberbob

The same way you can upsample the Virus track once you've captured it - which I know you do.

I think the OP wants the virus to run at 96kHz *internally*, to get the benefits of oversampling. You can't get this by simply upsampling the output.
By the way, I'm not convinced there would be such a big difference. I think I'm eventually going to do my time-stretching experiment (mentionned in my earlier post)

that pitch doubling trick could yield some interesting results. In theory this should replicate the effects although it obviously doesn't adress the big issue of just wanting that kind of performance to stream live out of the machine to reference while you work and save the time of workarounds. As that file above indicates, there's significant difference between 44 and 48. None of us really has any idea how much improvement we'd see from running it at 88 or 96k without actually doing it. I'm going to have to do some tests.

Sure you can capture and then upsample.. but if the top end sheen is filtered off and a little aliased at the source then there lies the issue. The virus is well documented for having a darker sound, which would disappear when operating at higher sample rates making the darker sound an option rather than automatic.

What I mean is that at 44khz the Virus just has a darker sound by design. At 48khz or any higher rate (if added) it would allow you to get a brighter more open sound but you could still easily get the darker sound simply using the filter. The sonic palette extends further when using it above 44khz.
You can always filter out, but putting back what's already been filtered out doesn't work so well.

Whatever - believe what you want. Its your money.

yeah It's not so much a matter of personal beliefs as it is facts that are easily measured and audible to anyone who knows what they're doing.

Zitat von AtonyB

Whatever - believe what you want. Its your money.

Here's one example of differences, though this was done with a 147hz saw just to show that it extends down a fair ways. It shows the darker more filtered off sound. Virus-Saw-44k-vs-48k-source-downsampled.wav

I should do one of these for a more high freq sound but that's all I took the time for to see what the filter was doing. If you are doing these kind of tests you have to do it carefully. Repeated key presses won't be exactly the same. I used a spec analyzer zoomed in at highest res so I could be sure I was selecting the brightest/purest hit that each sample rate produced and then compared them against each other.
I downsampled the 48k version using a top quality offline SRC so they could both be listened to at 44khz to similate where it all ends up at the finished product.

The differences are there and we can perceive them no problem. Whether or not you are conscious of it or distracted by the musical changes to articulate it is what fools most. When you focus in on aspects you can more easily compare. A test like the one above makes it simple and obvious as it's one note playing, back to back seamlessly where the only difference present is that produced by the different internal sample rate. What you just heard certainly would explain the well known "darker" sound people speak of with the Virus. The sonic palette opens up for more air & clarity on the top end. Whether or not you will want this for each sound you use is up to you, but having the choice beats not having it any day.