Best soundcard to use with a Virus TI

  • Best sound card to use with the Virus TI


    Good Day all,


    I'm hoping that I can explain this properly and that someone has seen this situation and knows the solution.


    I currently have an SB Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro (PCI) that I can't really use effectively because it's sample size is 96, 192 bytes (etc), not the 128 or 256 bytes that the Virus wants. Now even though I can dismiss the warning message, I have found that using this incompatible sample size makes the virus very laggy with a delay after hitting a key on my MIDI keyboard much greater than the reported latency (ms) of my system.


    To resolve this problem I have to use my Virus as a sound card. This however presents the problem that I only get 3 outs and can't use an In for the atomizer.


    1). Is it just the USB-In that is disabled when I am using the TI as a soundcard? Can I use the 2 1/4 in inputs on the Virus to use the atomizer and still record the data into my DAW?


    2.) If I need to use another audio interface, can someone recommend a quite good sound card (USB, PCI or PCI-E) with compatible sample sizes (128, 256) that works well with the TI (very low latency) so that I can use the TI's input. XLR with 48v on the sound card would be ideal.


    And now for a completely unrelated question, has anyone been able to use Ableton on a PC and Logic Pro 9 on a Mac and connected them via MIDI and been able to make them sync so that you can make them play together?

  • Have you tried using the free ASIO4ALL driver? It pretty much eliminates latency on traditional sound cards. As far as I can tell, the great majority of Windows-based music producers who don't have full-on audio interfaces use ASIO4ALL instead of their sound cards' native ASIO drivers.


    I don't know what your budget or I/O needs are, but I've successfully used the Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 6 with my virus. It's USB (make sure to use USB 2.0 ports, not 3.0), and its stats/features are quite good for its price.


    For twice the IO at twice the price, I've also had success with the MOTU UltraLite-mk3. I have the firewire-only version, but the current model is USB/FW hybrid.

  • +1 on ASIO4ALL. I suggest shopping for a pro soundcard once you know what mic and other instruments you are going to connect to it. If you have a limitation on the number of USB ports/hubs, you should consider getting a PCI/firewire soundcard if you want it to play nice with the Virus.

    And now for a completely unrelated question, has anyone been able to use Ableton on a PC and Logic Pro 9 on a Mac and connected them via MIDI and been able to make them sync so that you can make them play together?

    You can sync the DAW-s using MIDI if you tell the DAW on the receiving side to sync to an external MIDI clock, and select that MIDI in port. Another way you can sync is over your home network using rewire, here's an example of when the two DAW-s are on the same computer, but it's a good starting point.

  • Hi all, thank you so much for the answers. I have actually used ASIO4ALL but I have found that it actually consumes far more CPU than the native Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro ASIO drivers, enough to make me not want to use it.


    What I am looking for is an audio interface with native, low CPU ASIO drivers that is compatible with the Virus sample sizes.


    Admittedly, it has been a while since I used ASIO4all, is it a lot tighter now?


    I also definitely need a new sound card, my Audigy crackles at 60% CPU with 22ms latency on a PCI bus whereas the Virus doesn't crackle at all, even to 100% and it's on USB. I did like the Audigy 2 for it's vast number of inputs, 1/4" and RCA but I can move to all 1/4" and I do need XLR inputs with 48v (have a condensor and dynamic mic).

  • I also definitely need a new sound card, my Audigy crackles at 60% CPU with 22ms latency on a PCI bus whereas the Virus doesn't crackle at all, even to 100% and it's on USB. I did like the Audigy 2 for it's vast number of inputs, 1/4" and RCA but I can move to all 1/4" and I do need XLR inputs with 48v (have a condensor and dynamic mic).


    Both interfaces I mentioned earlier will suit all your stated needs, and will outperform the Virus's USB interface mode. I did latency testing on the KA6, the UltraLite, the Virus TI Desktop, and my MOTU PCIe-424, and here are the results... couldn't calculate "actual" final results on the virus because its latency is so high it interferes with measurements. Lower scores are better.


    [Blockierte Grafik: http://i.imgur.com/79efP.png]


    EDIT: The results were all recorded at 256 samples, 44.1Khz, 32-bits.


    EDIT 2: Also keep in mind that assuming your interface and drivers are functioning properly, the "crackling audio" threshold at a given sample buffer setting is determined by the specs of your PC more than the interface. Chipset, CPU, drivers, OS, bus saturation, power distribution all play a part.

  • Yes, I am definitely worried that bus saturation is a factor in the crackle because USB is obviously on a different controller/chip and that could definitely be why the virus is crackle free at 90-100% CPU (And yes, I do know the irony of my Virus being crackle free given all the problems other users have regarding it being the only device on the USB bus).


    Your stats are wonderful, thank you so much. I don't believe that I can afford the PCIe-424 right now (though that 13ms latency at 256 samples is delightful) but the Komplete 6 seems quite nice.


    I don't suppose you have had any chance to test the M-Audio 1010 Delta 101LT have you? (But again, my PCI bus could be saturated and that could actually make USB a better option).


    Have you possibly experienced the problems I've had with ASIO4ALL where it consumes more CPU than it should any advice on that?

  • Those are all the interfaces I own, and I don't have experience with any others. I've only done very minimal experimenting with ASIO4ALL since I use interfaces. It never caused me issues like you described though.


    The Virus appears to have some serious buffering going on in interface mode, perhaps to counteract the heavy latency, because I have pushed that thing hard before it cracks.


    If you ever do go the PCIe route, look for a modest graphics card. I've seen numerous complaints of super high-end, power-hungry graphics cards eating up PCIe bandwidth in DAW situations. (Those cards tend to be pretty noisy in the studio, too!)

  • Again, I really appreciate your help, thank you very much.


    I think I'm really being drawn to the Komplete 6. If you're getting 18ms at 256 samples, well that's great, I could really live with that.


    Just out of curiosity, have you been able to push your system to 90-100% CPU running the Komplete 6, how did it handle it?

  • Thank you ever so much!!


    Based on your excellent advice and awesome work I have just finished ordering a Komplete Audio 6 from Guitar Centre, it's their last second hand one (supposed to be in great condition) being shipped all the way from New Joisy!!


    I really do appreciate it. I'm excited to be able to get 18ms total response from the K6 with 256 samples and being able to use all of my USB ins and outs with the virus, neato.


    Just out of curiosity, I take it when you use USB-in for the Atomizer that the sound will have to go to Main (1/2) out which will then mean that you can only really route MIDI channels 2 and 3 to OUT 2 and 3 respectively.


    I ask this because currently I route 3 Virus channels to individual Audio outs and then bring those audio outs into Ableton Live so that I can use external effects on individual Virus channels.

  • I really do appreciate it. I'm excited to be able to get 18ms total response from the K6 with 256 samples and being able to use all of my USB ins and outs with the virus, neato.


    Just out of curiosity, I take it when you use USB-in for the Atomizer that the sound will have to go to Main (1/2) out which will then mean that you can only really route MIDI channels 2 and 3 to OUT 2 and 3 respectively.


    I ask this because currently I route 3 Virus channels to individual Audio outs and then bring those audio outs into Ableton Live so that I can use external effects on individual Virus channels.


    Well remember- the PC plays a huge part in audio interface performance; your final numbers might be different from mine, and could be either better or worse depending on your specs. My DAW system's nearly 3 years old (here are the specs). All that said, the KA6 is a fine interface, especially for the price.


    Regarding your other question, I'm not really sure what you're asking. (You're saying "MIDI channels" but I don't see how that relates to the audio routing?) Regarding audio output, I typically use the virus's analog audio outs, not the USB audio channels- and I haven't messed with the atomizer yet.

  • PokeyOats: Regarding USB, the internal hub actually IS a PCI device, and uses it for communication with the CPU and memory. It could be that the drivers aren't optimized - maybe there are newer versions available?
    Regarding the atomizer - it is carried out by a patch, so treat it like an oscillator or an effect - once it is on, you have to route the patch holding it to one of the outputs.

  • Thank you so much Flabberbob, that's perfect and what I suspected.


    It means that if I want to be lazy I can just route a "track" to the atomizer and then route that to the Viruses MAIN out 1/2 - That still leaves me MIDI channels 2 and 3 that I can route to an audio channel that corresponds to the same outputs.


    UltimateOutsider, this is what I was referring to. Something I find quite nifty about the TI is that you can send one of it's MIDI channels to a USB output. So in Ableton you can create a MIDI track that routes to the corresponding Virus MIDI track. You can then tell the Virus to output this to one of it's 3 USB stereo outs, you then take that stereo out in Ableton and input it to an Audio channel. This then allows you to use external VST effects on individual Virus MIDI/Audio channels.


    You can for example, Zebrify a Virus, or use a Waves plugin on an individual channel. Moreso, on just that Virus Audio channel you can send it to a unique send (Ableton) or bus (Logic). And you can do all this without having to use a single external cable.