Ghost notes...

  • Hi,


    I am a live keyboard player using Virus on stage. I have had issues with bender etc. but this is the newest one:


    Virus seems to sometimes generate some hanging notes even without anybody touching it. Now it was second time when me and my bandmates were having break at the back stage when somebody from the crowd came to us to say that "there's some strange noise comig from your sound system." I realized immediately that it's my Virus again. Somehow it had generated some notes... VERY annoying thing to happen.


    What is strange that it has never happened at my home when Virus has been on a long time alone and the setup is same which I use on stage...


    Anybody have had these "ghost notes"?


    On stage I have Nord Stage 2 and Virus TI2 Polar connected to iConnectMIDI which is controlled by iPhone.

  • Have been downstairs when all of a sudden ominous bass starts resonating throughout the house all of a sudden. Only started happening with OS5, have not noticed it with the last update but haven't used the Virus much since updating.

  • That is hilarious!


    All of a sudden there's a horror movie happening in your house... man, if the arpeggiator ever got going you'd pizz your pants! :pinch:

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  • Yep, happens to me too, only on stage of course :) If left alone for some time, my Virus triggers some note on its own. I haven't been able to track this down because it occurs too randomly, but I've experienced this with OS 3 (the OS version which came with my Virus) and newer. Also, it doesn't seem that this is dependent on some particular patch. My guess is that this is some keyboard-scanning hardware issue (something like pots changing their values on their own)...

  • Thanks all to your replies. I am not alone obviously...


    IMO Access should really take this seriously. I've played synths and keyboards for more than 20 years and this is the first synth doing it: randomly triggering notes. Virus - now the best synth of the year 2013 - is promoted as great tool for a live player. If it really is what it is said, this kind of issues just can't be there. Imagine a gig setup with huge stage and huge sound system and suddenly it starts...


    Ok, now the solution is to always remember to take down the main volume when you go to break after your set. And when playing your music always be prepared to play "panic" whenever you encounter these hanging notes... Not very nice for someone who would just want to put his/her energy to perform music?

  • Thanks all to your replies. I am not alone obviously...


    IMO Access should really take this seriously. I've played synths and keyboards for more than 20 years and this is the first synth doing it: randomly triggering notes. Virus - now the best synth of the year 2013 - is promoted as great tool for a live player. If it really is what it is said, this kind of issues just can't be there. Imagine a gig setup with huge stage and huge sound system and suddenly it starts...


    Ok, now the solution is to always remember to take down the main volume when you go to break after your set. And when playing your music always be prepared to play "panic" whenever you encounter these hanging notes... Not very nice for someone who would just want to put his/her energy to perform music?

    Of course they take bug reports seriously, that's why they eventually get fixed. I don't think Access are a particularly big company so resources are probably a little stretched. Have you updated to the latest OS (5.0.3)? What OS are you currently using? Personally I only started seeing this with OS5 (although it did fix a bug that is probably worse though limited to mono mode) so there is the option to downgrade to OS4 until this is fixed (which I am sure it will be in time).
    Until it is fixed maybe some more information may help Access like if there are certain conditions that have to be met for ghost notes to trigger (what effects are on), how frequent do the ghost notes appear (I have noticed them during play and while the synth is left by itself, I would say no less than 30 mins between each occurrence)? This kind of information may help Access in recreating the bug so they can find out what is causing it.

  • I can only tell you that fortunately it's not very often. I do 1-3 gigs per week with Virus and it happens perhaps in one gig in three or something like that. In fact I don't know if this general "hanging notes" issue is related to "ghost notes" issue. Former happens when you play Virus. Both of them are quite rare. My gigs are mostly about four hours long with Virus powered on. Not everytime happens this kind of things. And as said earlier, strangely it hasn't happened in my home.. (Although in Logic quite many strange issues have been there, but this is another story...)


    I am having OS 5.01.05. What do you think, should I go to newest one 5.0.3? Idea of going back to OS4 seems little frustrating cause some of my on-stage-presets use new features of OS5...

  • Yes I would advise upgrading but first:
    Set your Virus up in standalone mode
    Load a patch that produces ghost notes
    Spam some keys
    Leave the Virus alone to see how long it takes for these notes to appear


    Upgrade and repeat the same process.


    Also I think the hung notes and ghost notes may be due to the same bug as they both behave in similar ways but you could be right.

  • Do you have the USB connection enabled at the time? i had similar problems, and but it down to midi data triggering notes over USB. Usually if im browsing the internet on IE explorer.. media player plays midi files???.. and some incorrect routed midi data getting through?..only a rough idea but only reason i could imagine it to be. Like you say its hard to pinpoint because its so random, glad i dont use my virus live... 8|

  • IMO Access should really take this seriously. I've played synths and keyboards for more than 20 years and this is the first synth doing it: randomly triggering notes. Virus - now the best synth of the year 2013 - is promoted as great tool for a live player. If it really is what it is said, this kind of issues just can't be there. Imagine a gig setup with huge stage and huge sound system and suddenly it starts...


    just leaving a polar running over night doesn't do the trick it seems. is there anything i need to do in order to face a ghost note sooner or later?
    marc

  • I wish I could give you anything but I can't. My Polar was yesterday running alone (at home) about 4 hours with same patch and same setup which was there last time on stage when IT happened. 4 hours and nothing. "Ghost notes" is a good term to aply here: they happen only when there's maximal damage ;) And they don't appear when you'd like to learn from them.


    Few more things to add: on stage Virus isn't connected to any computer. Only connection is iConnect MIDI router which connects Virus to my Nord Stagepiano. Also, Virus is connected to it with standard MIDI cables, so no USB midi here. I am using multi mode.

  • Did you play your keyboard much before leaving it idle?

    ... My Polar was yesterday running alone (at home) about 4 hours with same patch and same setup which was there last time on stage when IT happened. 4 hours and nothing. ...

  • Wait a minute, I remember one more thing which might give some more light to this issue:
    Once when it happened, it was not Virus itself sounding but my Nord instead. In that case, in Virus I was having "a control patch" which is in fact itself silent (= part is off in multimode) but controlling Nord organ instead via Midi (through iConnect). Btw this is what I do also with my Virus: I occationally play Nord organ / synth with Polar. So this is a real MIDI issue: Virus can somehow generate midi note-on messages and these messages also come out from its Midi-outs. Very strange...

  • From what I have experienced with my Virus, I too think this problem is in some way related to MIDI and/or processing of the keyboard. Ghost note would be excess note on message, hanging note would be missing note off message... One of my theories is that keyboard or MIDI controller in the Virus sometimes misbehaves... Unfortunately, I wasn't able to further refine the condition when this happens, but I'm certain it's not OS version-dependent (happened to me with OS 3, 4 and 5) and it's not entirely patch-dependent (happened with several patches, although obviously some of them might have certain settings common)...

  • if we are talking missing note off messages, I can confirm this happens every now and then (and mostly with vc running). but not more frequently than say with a Waldorf micro q. I have never experienced freak midi events happening without any interaction at all. not even after the virus ti2 is already powered on for more than 12 hours.


    my ti2 is a desktop, so I am using an external midi controller. maybe it's an issue with keyboard/polar versions only?

  • I have had my Virus TI MK1 61 Key since 2007 and have never had anything like this happen before. Been on loads of different operating systems also.Currently on OS 5.2.0. I have had experience however with old synthesizers(Korg mono/poly,Prophet 600)doing this. The paper under the key would come off and hit the key contact randomly causing it to hit a note even when not pressed. The virus uses a different method for its keybed I am sure though. Jus thought I would say this. Hope you guys figure it out.

  • the virus keyboard uses the fatar tp8s keybeds, right? and they are said to be one hell of a keybed. can't imagine that they are prone to these classic synth era problems. owned a sy77 with a yamaha fs keybed for 20+ years, and even with the keybed finally degrading with sticky keys and all, there was never an issue with self triggering.