Ghost notes...

  • I was trying to think what's the difference between the live and studio environments and these issues came to mind:

    • Vibrations - the high sound levels might resonate inside the body of the Virus and cause this. To test this put your setup on top of a loudspeaker and play it loud for a few hours.
    • EM interference - many people in the audience with wireless devices. To test it, put your wireless router, smartphones of friends and family etc. around the setup for a few hours.
  • Reading these posts I'd say that at least 4-5 users are having something close to my "ghost notes" issue. What is probably the most crucial question here: are we having hardware or firmware issue here? I know that sometimes faulty knobs can send values on their own. For example my control pedal can send some values without touching it if it's somewhere between highest or lowest point. But can keys do the same in principal? Maybe Marc can estimate this possibility... My Polar is just few months old.


    flabberbob: In those circumstances where it happened there was no significally more sound vibrations or radio interference, or at least I think so...

  • are we having hardware or firmware issue here? I know that sometimes faulty knobs can send values on their own.


    Yep, I'm thinking the same. Quite a large number of knobs on my Virus are changing values themselves... Also, did anyone experienced this on keyboardless version of Virus (snow, TI desktop)?

  • Reading these posts I'd say that at least 4-5 users are having something close to my "ghost notes" issue. What is probably the most crucial question here: are we having hardware or firmware issue here? I know that sometimes faulty knobs can send values on their own. For example my control pedal can send some values without touching it if it's somewhere between highest or lowest point. But can keys do the same in principal? Maybe Marc can estimate this possibility... My Polar is just few months old.


    as i said before, i wasn't able to create a ghost note when leaving the polar on for a night but that doesn't mean a lot. as for the knobs: if those send values on their own you should consider servicing your virus. if the pedal sends values without touching it is likely that the pedal has a problem. please understand that telediagnosis will not proof reliable in this case.
    best, marc


  • as i said before, i wasn't able to create a ghost note when leaving the polar on for a night but that doesn't mean a lot. as for the knobs: if those send values on their own you should consider servicing your virus. if the pedal sends values without touching it is likely that the pedal has a problem. please understand that telediagnosis will not proof reliable in this case.
    best, marc


    Yes, I very well understand the diagnostics problem here. I have had a synth with knobs sending values without touching them and it needed repair. Also, it's very typical that pedal (especially when left somewhere in the middle) can send values or jump here and there around this point. These two are quite typical cases which clearly point to hardware problematic.


    But my question was that is it likely that we (5 or more users here) are having hardware problem here? Physically keys are very different to encoders or potentiometers. With keys you need much more power/physical movement to make them react. I don't know the Virus construction here; is it in principal possible to get note on message without key going down? Some technical expert can maybe answer that. As said earlier, I have never experienced anything like that in 20 years with synths.


    My problem with my brand new Virus TI2 Polar is that I have some strange problems (bender going crazy and now ghost notes) which happen very seldom and it's far from clear what is problem here. I am using Virus weekly in my work and I would like be to sure have a real hardware problems before I am going to send it to away for possible months or so. Problem is of course that can they (Access) experience this problem at all if they get my unit there? Or is it perhaps something that exists there with all the Viruses, kind of an rare unwanted hardware feature...?

  • But my question was that is it likely that we (5 or more users here) are having hardware problem here? Physically keys are very different to encoders or potentiometers. With keys you need much more power/physical movement to make them react. I don't know the Virus construction here; is it in principal possible to get note on message without key going down? Some technical expert can maybe answer that. As said earlier, I have never experienced anything like that in 20 years with synths.


    i simply cannot tell. Fatar produces the keys, the key bed and the components which track the key action. i don't have enough knowledge about what *might* go wrong at their end. and, certainly, i don't want to blame shift here. at the same time, assuming it is software related, 5 users are nothing in comparison to our user base (which is a good 5 digit number). again, let me emphasis on the fact that i simply don't know what the reason for the problem might be; and that means i neither can confirm it from our end or point to somewhere else.


    feel free to send your virus in, so somebody can have a look and also feel free to contact support. maybe somebody there has a good idea.
    hth, marc

  • Ok, I've also been having these same problems with my TI2 keyboard. In fact, by this point I've experienced all three issues, ghost notes, hanging and stuck notes, both thru midi and just with the Virus in standalone.


    I am using no computers, no USB, only MIDI-out of the Virus -in to a Nord Electro 2 Rack. Occasionally it will send ghost MIDI-on to the Electro or get stuck while playing the Electro with the Virus keyboard.


    I know this is a stretch, but could the placement of the keyboard be affecting the hardware somehow? I have the Virus on the second tier of my stand, so it's tilted at an angle. Could it need to be completely straight on a flat surface?


    I'm grasping at straws here, I know, but I'm pretty desperate to solve this problem. As I've mentioned in another thread, I have an important gig coming up later this month, and I don't need to worry about these bugs and glitches. Our live set has a lot of subtle-ambient-textured transitions and I don't need my Virus ruining the entire mood of the performance.


    I'm sorry, but how the hell can something so expensive be so problematic??? Is this what it's like to own a BMW? This is the second TI I've purchased in the last two months. So, if you're a prospective buyer who's come to peruse the forums for advice, BEWARE THE BUGGY VIRUS.


    (BTW:Is the title of this synth some sick joke? Does it run on Windows or something? Jesus.)


    ACCESS, PLEASE SORT THIS OUT.

  • namahshaman & flabberbob


    I have thought about stage situation - what are the main differences compared to situation at home? I wasn't kidding when I said that I have never had "ghost notes" at home and Virus have been left on for hours. Like namahshaman, I have Virus above my Nord Stage and it has been tilted a little. Also, there are perhaps some vibrations and movements that aren't there at home: when I play on stage keyboard stand moves a little, at home it's on the table. Also, there's more sound coming from stage in general. And when left alone for a break, this sound system is playing background music.


    Could Virus be more vulnerable to this kind of things? Definetily it should not, if it's for live players like they promote it. I am sure that there are (lot?) more users who have these issues but because they aren't so usual they ingnore or just tolarate them. I can also see that this isn't very new one. For example, just read a first post from this thread from 2011:


    http://virus.info/forum/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=2882

  • namahshaman & flabberbob

    I have Virus above my Nord Stage and it has been tilted a little. Also, there are perhaps some vibrations and movements that aren't there at home: when I play on stage keyboard stand moves a little, at home it's on the table. Also, there's more sound coming from stage in general. And when left alone for a break, this sound system is playing background music.


    Could Virus be more vulnerable to this kind of things? Definetily it should not, if it's for live players like they promote it. I am sure that there are (lot?) more users who have these issues but because they aren't so usual they ingnore or just tolarate them. I can also see that this isn't very new one. For example, just read a first post from this thread from 2011:


    http://virus.info/forum/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=2882

    I know its a long shot, but!!! i have had this on other keyboards, and it maybe just this, maybe not!.. my keyboard stand has lugs on the tiers to stop the keyboard sliding off, and the keys used to sometimes stick on these lugs if i placed the board on the stand in the wrong place sometimes,.. my friend said "whats that drone note!??" in the studio, and my Juno was playing a note because it was wedged between the stands lug and a key... freaky!.. but it can happen. :wacko: lol.. its never happened in a gig situation it was in my studio... just a thought.. i like a mystery!!! :thumbup:

  • Nice try musikman2008, but I'm not quite that stupid. haha


    I'm not 100% positive yet, but I think I may have sorted out the issue. As of now, I'm going on over 18 hours without a glitch, which is more than it's ever gone.


    Ok, here's what I did (sounds bizarre, I know, but hear me out). I noticed in the manual that it clearly states the Virus needs to be on a flat stable surface. Up until now, I had the Virus on the second tier of my stand where the metal bottom of the Virus was laying across the two metal arms of the tier, possibly causing some vibrational issues. SO, I spread the arms out to where they were aligned with the rubber feet on the bottom of the Virus, then for extra shock-absorbency I placed some foam-rubber tubes around the tier arms.


    I performed this alteration four days ago, and have run the Virus 4-6 hours a day since without a single hanging/stuck note or ghost note... or any glitches for that matter. Which leads me to believe that I've sorted the problem out, since before I could never go more than a day without a glitch.
    This might explain why it only happens to some of you at gigs and not in the studio.


    I'll keep everyone posted and up to date.


    The longer my Virus works properly, the more I'm falling in love with it.

  • Hmmm.. while i dont disregard your findings, i find it hard to believe that placing the virus at an angle can affect its performance... heres why...



    1. It has No moving parts inside.
    2. Its not affected by magnetic fields.
    3. Its a solid state instrument.
    4. The only influence on its operation is either by "external forces" or "software forces"


    Its not like an iPod or iPhone that has Gyro/movement sensors, so why would it be affected by tilting it???
    This device is CE approved (Compatible electro magnetique approved standard) and shouldnot interfere or be interfered with electrically...


    I suspect a more simple explanation.. and as you say, MY Virus is always on a flat surface in my studio, so i cant confirm if its an angle issue, but its very interesting...

    :thumbup:

  • Hi. I'm playing synths since the beginning of the 80's. This is a long time now and I really had a lot of different units.
    But, my TI keyboard is the first that produces ghost notes. I had this on my last gig with a very huge PA. Nice experience ...


    Due to my job (electronic engineer) I do not believe that only a flat surface is the right one for playing Virus.
    I'm really pissed :thumbdown: because I was playing a Rack XL for many years and it was working quite fine. It also was the reason for
    buying another access product again. Now after transferring all sound to the new synth such a thing happens.


    Access, please find a solution.

  • I noticed in the manual that it clearly states the Virus needs to be on a flat stable surface. Up until now, I had the Virus on the second tier of my stand where the metal bottom of the Virus was laying across the two metal arms of the tier, possibly causing some vibrational issues.


    So if I get you right, to replicate the ghost notes bug, one could simply take his powered-on Virus and shake it in his hands? I'm asking this because I think rather than find a condition when Virus does not exhibit the problem (which might be simply a coincidence and thus we can't be sure) we should search for a reliable way to reproduce the bug...

  • Feel free to shake your Virus vigorously. haha.


    Seriously though, I guess you could place the Virus on metal keyboard-stand arms, not using the rubber feet on the Virus, metal on metal, and produce some vibrations (ie loud bass, etc).


    This could also be an isolated case. And of course, like I said, I'm not convinced that this is the solution yet. I'm still testing. (I did put the Virus back on the metal arms the first day and get a stuck note, but I haven't tried it again since. been enjoying a functioning Virus too much. ha).


    Sounds like a job for Access to figure out. I'm no technician. ha

  • I just came back from a gig with my Virus, no any kind of trouble with it. I am happy with that. Anyway what I've learned to do is take down volumy from both my Virus and also from Nord Stage which is midi-connected to Virus, when I leave the stage for break. As said earlier, Virus have even generated midi ghost notes to my Nord. I don't risk anymore those terrible ghost notes from big sound system when I am not there.


    Btw I am not having metal to metal setup when I am on the stage. Virus is the upper keyboard, it's tilted but there are also big enough rubber contacts which touch Virus' bottom. On the other hand, those ghost notes happen not so often... This is a rare thing but very serious, at least for those of us who do gigs. Access should really try to find out what's going on. And this ghost notes issue isn't very new, I just read about someone complaining about same thing in post on 2011. All this been said, Virus did a great job again on the gig. It sounds SO amazing. Also, same day I used in the studio for commercial music. It's a tool which I use all the time.