Shifting Back and Forth Between Virus TI and Snow

  • I am a new Virus owner. I have encountered a few challenges in getting it integrated into my setup, but I think I've figured out workable solutions. I'm posting this to the forum in case more experienced owners have developed more elegant methods of dealing with the same issues. This is a bit long-winded, but I've found its better to provide precise information when asking for help. I have searched the Access Forum and did find some threads discussing compatibility issues of Snow vs. TI. They did focus on a situation where the user was "upgrading" from a Snow to a Virus TI. My situation is similar, but not identical.


    I work in two locations. At night, I work in my home studio with an iMac and a Polar. I use Logic as the DAW. All instruments other than the Polar are virtual. During the day, I work in a different location using a MacBook Pro and a Snow. The two Macs are set up so that they have identical software configurations (Logic and the various VI plugins) and all project files are saved to a Dropbox folder that is accessible from either location. When I was relying solely on virtual instruments, the transition from one location to the other was seamless. I could stop work on a project at home, and pick up exactly where I left off at the other location without having to change any settings in the software, and vice versa.


    To give me the same ability with the Access units, I have landed on the following approach. First, I need to keep the number of Access-related tracks in a project to a maximum of 4, which is the limit of the number of Parts that can be output from the Snow. I could add more Access tracks but would need to bounce any tracks in excess of 4 to audio. I am used to shifting midi regions and modifying the length of projects right up to the last minute, so bouncing down a track to audio doesn't fit too well with my work process. I realize that I could chop up the audio tracks, effectively turning them into loops that I could arrange. I also realize that tracks need to be bounced in realtime. Not a problem but I haven't discovered how to bounce multiple tracks to separate audio files, so it can take quite a while to real time bounce tracks one after another for a project that is, say, 10 minutes long.


    The Access Control plugins for the Virus TI and the Snow are different (i.e., there are two of them). So, when I open a project that was last worked on in my Polar setup, I need to switch the channel strip input setting for all Access tracks in Logic to the Snow plugin. Same process is required when I switch back from the Snow to the Polar. That's not a problem. Just takes a couple of seconds to change the instrument settings on a few tracks. The previous forum postings suggest that in making the change, I will lose automation data for the Access tracks. I'm not sure if that applies to Volume automation as well. I can see why it might apply to filters, effects, or other parameters where things would be mapped differently in the TI vs. the Snow. Haven't experimented yet to see.


    Getting the patches to sync up when switching instruments was a bit more of a puzzle to me, but I think the following method will work. I do know that I can load the same patches in both the Polar and the Snow. I also know how to shift patches to slots in the RAM banks and (although I haven't tried it yet), how to burn a patch to one of the empty ROM slots. So, I am thinking that I need to load the patches that I'm using on the four tracks to the same four slot locations either in RAM or in unused ROM banks on both the Polar and the Snow. They won't load automatically when I switch the track input from one instrument to the other, but they will at least be in a consistent location in both instruments, which will make it easier to find, especially if they come from, or are based on presets from, different libraries. The Access control library search feature does not search across multiple libraries from what I can tell, which makes sense.


    That's what I've figured out from reading tutorials, various forum postings, watching Access videos, and Youtube videos. Does anybody out there have a better approach for shifting back and forth between Virus TI and Snow on a continuous basis? And "no", buying another Virus TI is not a viable option! :)

  • I am used to shifting midi regions and modifying the length of projects right up to the last minute, so bouncing down a track to audio doesn't fit too well with my work process.

    My projects don't have their final structure until (and sometimes after) the last minute as well, but I do bounce when I need extra Virus tracks. I keep the MIDI track muted next to the bounced audio tack, so that when it needs to be changed I can locate it easily. It's like freezing tracks in some DAW-s, only manual, and yes, it consumes time but on the other hand you can use this time to listen to your track soloed so you can find mistakes and get new ideas.

    The previous forum postings suggest that in making the change, I will lose automation data for the Access tracks.

    Plugin automation belongs to the plugin track, so when you switch plugins the automation goes away with it (maybe you can copy automation data from one to the other in the transition period when you have both plugins loaded). MIDI automation belongs to the MIDI track and therefore it stays with it, so I say stick to MIDI. The most useful functions are already mapped as MIDI CC-s and you can find the list in the appendix section of the Virus C's manual (the TI is backwards compatible). Plus, there are a few unmapped CC-s for you to custom-map yourself using the mod matrix.

    They won't load automatically when I switch the track input from one instrument to the other, but they will at least be in a consistent location in both instruments, which will make it easier to find, especially if they come from, or are based on presets from, different libraries.

    Again, you can use a MIDI program/bank change command at the beginning of each Virus MIDI track to reset the track to your predetermined patch location. The VC only looks at the Virus patches folder under your user folder so assuming your project is inside your dropbox folder, you'll have to manually copy the .mid bank file to your drop box after you finish work in one location and copy from your dropbox before you start work in the other location.
    Hope this helps!

  • Thanks for the advice and explanations, Flapperbob. Good point about the benefits of listening to the track as it is being bounced in realtime. I rarely listen to a track solo after I lay down what I think is a good take and it is probably a bad habit, because I know that I can't always pick out subtle mistakes when listening to the full mix. And, even if the original take is OK, I can (and do) create errors if I shift or edit MIDI regions and get them even slightly out of sync.


    I didn't appreciate the distinction between midi automation and plugin automation, so that was really very helpful.


    Regarding your suggestion of using a MIDI program/bank change command, could you elaborate a bit on your suggestion? I am embarrassed to admit that I really have never thought about how a patch file for any instrument is actually structured. I always assumed they were proprietary to the particular instrument.


    I understand how a MIDI command for a patch/bank change works. It just points to a particular location and whatever patch is there, gets called up. But the patch information itself is, I assume, a different kind of file and assume that it is really just a particular combination of parameters relating to the oscillators, filters, envelopes, effects, etc.? So, this could be proprietary to the instrument (so patch files for massive would be different from those for Virus), or are they called up via MIDI parameters (i.e., a ".mid" file)?


    I have checked some of the other threads on the forum to get a handle on this, and saw some of your previous posts relating to .mid files, but am still not clear on the distinctions. Also tried a web search but didn't find a clear explanation.


    I can't believe I really don't understand so fundamental a concept, after all these years of working with MIDI, but I guess getting a Virus is opening entirely new vistas for me, both sonically and otherwise! :)

  • The patch data itself, the thing that tells the Virus engine which oscillators, LFO-s, envelopes and effects to use and how, is just a collection of raw bits and bytes that look random to the unsuspecting eye. This data can be saved in many formats, and in fact you can find many Virus C patches in .syx format instead. In a .mid file, that data is wrapped up with a 'coating' that makes it easily digestible by sequencers, called MIDI sysEx messages (I believe you have encountered those in the past).
    This of course has nothing to do with the bank/patch select command - by using this command you just assume that the patch data was transmitted and saved to the expected location.

  • OK. That's what I figured. Yes, you are right, I am aware of MIDI sysEx messages, although I really haven't done a great deal with them, at least not knowingly. Am currently implementing your suggestions about keeping the midi and the bounced audio tracks next to each other in the arrange page.


    Patch name display on my Polar has gotten a bit screwed up for some reason. A number of the patches in in RAM bank display as a series of symbols, (parentheses, colons, etc.) instead of real names. I am pretty sure they weren't this way originally. I just noticed it last night late, so haven't had time to explore. I hope the work-around is simply to restore the patches from ROM, but haven't checked to see if they are messed up as well. I assume they should be good because I haven't burned anything to ROM and therefore the data for each patch, including patch name should remain unchanged.

  • Last night I decided that one way to make it easier to shift from the Polar in my home studio setup to the Snow in my daytime setup was to duplicate each of the Polar tracks in Logic, but re-assign the I/O to a channel in the Snow and then find and load the same patch. I figured that when I was working with the Snow, I'd simply mute the Polar tracks and when working with the Polar, I'd mute the Snow tracks. Thought this might work because I know other forum members use a TI and Snow simultaneously.


    Didn't work for me and I am wondering if it is because when I load the project on one computer, Logic wants to see both of Access instruments, not just one of them?


    What I got on my Polar setup was just a constant kind of buzzing noise being output from the Polar track. And, of course, nothing at all from the Snow track because there was no Snow attached.


    Any suggestions? I've tried relaunching Logic, rebooting the Polar and the Snow. Could try reinstalling the TI software, but I just did that last week to fix another problem with the display of patch names.

  • Flabberbob: Thanks again for the advice on disabling plugins and also the designer who uses non-alphanumeric characters. I hadn't picked up on that. I hadn't thought of disabling the plugins, although perhaps I should have after last night. I spent about 2 hours struggling to install plugins from Waldorf. Became intimately re-acquainted with the vagaries of getting 32 bit plugins to be recognized in Logic under 64 bit mode. Some very strange behaviour from Logic, claiming that it had quit unexpectedly during the AU scan, but it hadn't really quit.