New PC.. whats the scoop on USB3.0?..

    So, one of my PC's died so I bought a new HP 1360t with i7-3770 computer and am thinking to replace my studio computer...given this is better than that one..lol.


    This new PC has two USB 3.0 ports and my thinking is to have the MOTU 828mkII hybrid on one, and the Virus Ti2 Polar on the other...then the rest of the synths, controllers and stuff on the USB2 ports with hubs etc


    Which of course, begs the inquiry as to how has the success been with connecting the Virus to a USB3.0 port?..


    and also, I am on o.s. 4.5.3.00 so does that matter?..


    thanks

    My fellow late-adopter (same TIOS here)... from my experience it's hard to tell in advance how the Virus will work with USB3 since it depends on who designed the chipset, who manufactured it, who integrated it into the motherboard, who wrote the drivers etc. Just try and see how it works. But more than just what USB standard is implemented, the question of how the USB bandwidth is distributed is the one you should be looking into. For example, having the Virus and the MOTU under the same internal hub will make them fight over the bandwidth so that none of them is satisfied. Furthermore, since the Virus is a USB 1.1 device it needs special care from the internal hub so it is your safest bet to have it as the only device under its internal hub. Use the device manager in "devices by connection" view to see just what goes where.
    Hope this helps.

    I use a new Mac with USB 3.0 and had some issues, but learnt quite a bit that might be useful.


    first, as Access have pointed out, as such its not a bandwidth issue.
    the issues arise when interface USB to 1.1 -> 2.0 or 3.0, because they have to go through a transaction translator (TT for short), the issue is many hubs (internal/external) only have a single TT, which means effectively you can only use a single 1.x USB device on that hub without experiencing delays.


    this is explained well here:
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/usb-technology,677.html


    this has also been confirmed by PolyTec GMBH who wrote the USB driver software for Access, see here:
    http://www.usb-audio.com/support.html


    so the issue is does your 'hub' have multi TT or not, unfortunately this is often impossible to answer, and is invariably the answer is no.


    the good news is, if you use an external 2.0 hub it will have at least a single TT, so if you dedicate it to your Virus you should be ok, (you can use other proper USB 2.0 devices on it, as they will not make use of the TT)


    (as a side note, interestingly, I tried plugingmy TI into they USB on the macs keyboard, usually used for a mouse, it worked fine.. why? because it has an integrated hub, which since it has to cope with 1.x devices, has a single TT, again showing its not the 'quality' of the hub, its simple the number of TTs vs devices)


    so theoretically, (ive not needed so not tried), if you have a few USB 1.x devices, you could buy multiple 2.0 hubs (or find one with a multi TT in it)


    as flabberbob mentioned, the issue with the internal USB 3.0 hub is, its tricky to determine a few things:
    a) the internal devices connected, are they using usb 1.x or not?
    b) how many TT does it have?


    so this is the theory, and also what I found in practice....


    Id be interested to know if any one thinks this is wrong, or can add any more to the picture.


    sorry, i know this doesn't answer the 'will it work', or what card should I buy... but hopefully is useful

    thanks folks..


    Part of my query was whether the Virus USB drivers had been updated at all along the way with o.s. updates?.. if so I would update the o.s. using the current machine before the switch over...(this would be nice to know)


    ports etccc.


    what was I thinking?.. given I ended up with an extra 4 port pci hub I know hubs=bad and that TT are the important thing.. so the USB3.0 ports on the back will likely only be used by one device...or drive other hubs/stuff


    still porting other software at present.. and this from the "if it aint broke I don't fix it" person..smh.

    Zitat von Marc


    do you use a hub in between?
    best, marc


    I've tried just about every combination. A hub, a dedicated PCie card, a direct cable, etc. It seems to run okay with simple productions such as the virus demo song. But as things get more complex, tracks are added, external midi, UAD-2, it seems downright impossible to not have anomalies.

    Zitat von robg

    I've tried just about every combination. A hub, a dedicated PCie card, a direct cable, etc. It seems to run okay with simple productions such as the virus demo song. But as things get more complex, tracks are added, external midi, UAD-2, it seems downright impossible to not have anomalies.


    Unfortunately,..Same here!!

    Sorry but it doesn't help. Notes being stolen due to polyphony shouldn't result in strange anomalies, only missing notes, as is the case in non-TI mode. As for snapping to bars, come on,, seriously :)


    I have yet to learn of anyone that has a completely stable set-up. I know that USB sound cards don't have this problem, and the addition of midi should not be causing this.


    My theory is that the sample-accurate nature of the plugin is to blame, but access has not said anything about this.


    What if the timing were loosened up to simply "midi accurate." ? Would it work better than in most situations? I am not sure if we will ever know..

    Zitat von flabberbob

    I guess I'm not sure what exactly you mean by 'strange anomalies'.


    The things that people have been complaining about in here for years. Pitch and timing problems. Random other weird things happening, general instability. Problems that don't occur in standalone non-plugin mode. If TI/plugin was the only option, I'd have returned or sold this synth a very long time ago.

    I know people have been complaining about problems with VC, but when you dig deep into the complaints it's not always the same thing even when called by the same name, for example, "pitch problem" could be having a 44kHz audio stream playing as 48kHz (or vice versa) which was a real bug that was fixed in previous TIOS-s, or it could be pitch rises and falls that are caused by the delay effect when the MIDI time signature is changed and the delay momentarily speeds up or slows down to catch up (think tape delay).
    What I'm trying to say is if you describe your problems in detail (preferably in a new thread) it may be possible to find a solution within your current setup.
    Hope this helps.

    Zitat von flabberbob

    I know people have been complaining about problems with VC, but when you dig deep into the complaints it's not always the same thing even when called by the same name, for example, "pitch problem" could be having a 44kHz audio stream playing as 48kHz (or vice versa) which was a real bug that was fixed in previous TIOS-s, or it could be pitch rises and falls that are caused by the delay effect when the MIDI time signature is changed and the delay momentarily speeds up or slows down to catch up (think tape delay).
    What I'm trying to say is if you describe your problems in detail (preferably in a new thread) it may be possible to find a solution within your current setup.
    Hope this helps.


    There wouldn't be such a degree of complaining if this thing worked like it should, come on dude, seriously. This after you suggested that I check my note quantization as a probable cause for timing problems.


    There always seems to be at least one staunch defender on every forum..

    Zitat von flabberbob

    No need to second guess my intentions ;) I'm here to help.
    The Virus arp is relative to the first note-on, not bar/beat grid. If your first note-on for the arp is on an off beat, the arp will stay shifted in time. My suggestion was regarding the arp only. I still don't know what is the problem you are facing.


    After a perfect note-on the virus's internal ARP frequently goes out of time.