Multiple Instances of Virus

    Zitat von Ruari

    Yes, software can display the name of the automation parameter to the host. To get a finer degree of control then instead of the basic standard MIDI CC data the synth manufacturer can resort to what is called NRPN (Non Registered Parameter Number) where there is more than one piece of controller data sent for every bit of knob movement, but it is still just MIDI data being sent.


    I can see that. However, there seems to be a difference in the way Ableton deals with pure MIDI cc events and the software abstraction that makes up the finer-grained, labelled automation data. Specifically, this automation data isn't sent back to a sequencer MIDI strip controlling a particular channel of the Virus. It's sent back to VC.


    Zitat


    After you have recorded your knob movements, can you copy that automation data to a different lane?


    Possibly. I would have to manually look up the MIDI CC number for the control though, so it would be a major hassle. If VC is allowing finer-grained control through the VST then this would be lost.


    Zitat

    Ah right, now this might be a case of different things in different DAWs having the same name but the external instrument plug-in in Logic is for connecting up external hardware - like a Jupiter etc - & treating it as a software instrument. The only good thing about using the external instrument plug-in in Logic is that you don't need a separate audio track to be able to hear the instrument, if you wanted to use any automation on that instrument then you are far better off having a dedicated MIDI instrument lane (the automation shows up as CC# though) if you don't happen to have an external mixer then you will have to create an audio track with it's input set to wherever the synth is coming into your audio interface. You wouldn't use that if you were using the VC plug-in though.


    Sounds similar. However, I think the 'external instrument' plug-in in Ableton gives access to audio from hardware, ReWire or VST instruments within other channel strips. It may be possible to use it to grab automation data by pointing it at the VC plug-in. Obviously I wouldn't wire up the audio that way, the VC doesn't work like that. But it may do some better internal MIDI mapping than a plain MIDI channel strip.


    If I get any joy I'll post up here, but I'm thinking it'll probably be another dead end.

    Zitat von Ionis

    Actually, if it is such a big problem for you, you can use every track in Ableton from the Virus TI with its own lane if you run it via MIDI without VC. The issue is simple how Ableton handles plugins. I have found that the easiest way to run my Virus TI with Ableton is to have a starting template with no configured controllers from the Virus TI. I just add them as I go to keep it clean.


    OK. I'm completely happy to work this way, but have you found a way to record MIDI control data from the Virus within the MIDI channel that contains the note data in Ableton? This appears to be the crux of the problem.


    If you have, would you be kind enough to post up an Ableton project showing it in action and a screenshot of your MIDI preferences? :)

    I have found this on the Ableton forums, which takes you step by step through setting up the Virus in Ableton to appear as up to 6 separate 'instances' (6 mono, 3 stereo or any combination) using the external instrument plug-in and the three USB inputs. Sadly, it sounds like automation data is still sent back to the first instance with the actual VC.


    http://forum.ableton.com/viewt…virus+ti+timbral#p1168028


    Can anyone do better?

    OK, after more research it looks like it can't be done - Ableton will always collect automation data in one channel for a multi-timbral VST. People have been complaining about this on the Ableton forums for quite a while.


    Using MIDI ccs limits you to using clips rather than automation lanes, which is not ideal.


    The fact that Logic can separate automation data makes it a sequencer problem. We should all pester Ableton. :)


    Also, the 'external instrument' plug-in limits you to the VST sound outputs from a plugin, if you set that plug-in as the MIDI destination. So you can't use it to consume audio inputs routed from the Virus analogue outs or SPDIF. Boooooo.

    Zitat von dark_fader

    OK, after more research it looks like it can't be done - Ableton will always collect automation data in one channel for a multi-timbral VST. People have been complaining about this on the Ableton forums for quite a while.


    Using MIDI ccs limits you to using clips rather than automation lanes, which is not ideal.


    The fact that Logic can separate automation data makes it a sequencer problem. We should all pester Ableton. :)

    Bummer :(


    I'm glad I don't use Ableton then.

    Yeah, as it sounds like Cubase users experience the same issues, that leaves PC users a little shafted on that front. (And after paying for the synth I don't really want to shell out for a Mac + sound card + Logic. :P )


    I'll just have to bear with it for now and hope Ableton fix it for the next version.

    You nailed it buddy, you can only separate automation in Ableton if you use Control Change's and only in session clips. But as a perk, you can make a looping automation in the clips and then morph them in the main track lane giving you some awesome results.