Virus TI not compatible with MacOS Catalina / Big Sur

  • this is very disappointing and i hope it's resolved soon, but the silver lining is that i'm forced to use the audio outputs and try things like running my virus through other synths. not nearly as convenient but some new sonic territory, at least.

  • I don't think you're understanding the issue. My audio interfaces (RME Multifaces) work fine and I use multiple external synths - very low latency and spot-on timing.

    When the Virus TI plug-in is running, PDC applies and there's latency, which is compensated for by PDC.

    When the plug-in is running, you can't send MIDI direct to the Virus, it can only go through the plug-in.

    yep, it’s pretty much impossible to get the timing right when using the Plugin + Audio outs.. And I bought a pretty expensive audio interface for the Virus.. again a major bummer!

  • Oh, I even said I'd be happy to use the audio outs, midi over USB, and the stand alone librarian in windows.. I said precisely that.. I just wanted confirmation it would work and that midi still works ok in Catalina..

    well I can confirm that it doesn’t. I’m using the audio outs and the Virus just can’t get the timing right. It’s not my DAW. My audio interface has a direct monitoring button and the timing is exactly the same when I press that. So the timing is off BEFORE it enters my Audio Interface!

    This is something my DAW can’t compensate for since it can’t predict when the Virus magically decides it wants to f*** up the timing again. It only compensates for the time it takes for plugins to do their processing, which is set amount and does not change.


    EDIT: What's weird is that I ran the same project on my Mojave Mac (using the audio outs) and here the timing isn't as bad. It's noticeably worse in Catalina and I can't find a way to fix it.

  • well I can confirm that it doesn’t. I’m using the audio outs and the Virus just can’t get the timing right. It’s not my DAW. My audio interface has a direct monitoring button and the timing is exactly the same when I press that. So the timing is off BEFORE it enters my Audio Interface!

    This is something my DAW can’t compensate for since it can’t predict when the Virus magically decides it wants to f*** up the timing again. It only compensates for the time it takes for plugins to do their processing, which is set amount and does not change.


    EDIT: What's weird is that I ran the same project on my Mojave Mac (using the audio outs) and here the timing isn't as bad. It's noticeably worse in Catalina and I can't find a way to fix it.

    Here is some interesting reading why that might happen, https://www.gearslutz.com/boar…-crimson.html#post9852296 the part about core audio and bit accurate drivers. It does not however offer any solutions for your timing problems, but maybe some further information how to avoid it.

  • Contacted Access about the timing issue. here's what they had to say:


    ''When using the Virus TI plugin and using the analog outs, this cannot be delay compensated by DAWs due to technical restrictions in general. There is also no setting that would influence this at all. You can try to see if using different buffer sizes might help, but again the signal from the analog outs cannot be delay compensated in general with the plugin being in use (and this never was the case.''


    So basically there's nothing we can do to fix the timing when using the analog outs.

  • Is the "timing issue" something like this? (As I am starting to be completely out of the loop what is being complained..)


    About Cubase for example (its slightly old, things tend to change to better over time, but..yeah :/):


    "For instance, if you play regular 16th notes at 120bpm, each note will occur at an interval of 125ms, but when a soft synth is played 'live' through an audio interface with a buffer size of 5ms you'll perhaps hear them with spacings such as 125ms, 125ms, 125ms, 130ms, 120ms, 130ms, 125ms and so on, where occasional notes get shoved into adjacent buffers. For most people this is still scarcely audible, but if you raise the buffer size to 20ms then you might hear a string of 'live' notes emerging with spacings of 120ms, 120ms, 120ms, 140ms, 120ms, 120ms, 140ms and so on: the 'granularity' has increased."


    "Most sequencers choose not to calculate any offsets within the next buffer relating to 'live' MIDI data — they just quantise them all to the nearest buffer boundary, and rely on the buffers being short enough to mask unwanted rhythmic artifacts. The main reason they do this is to keep every note's MIDI latency as low as possible, but at the expense of extra jitter." - Martin Walker SOS

    Worst (in my opinion and many others anyway..) case would be Ableton Live. Theres even a special mention about it in the Virus OS release notes. "• Ableton Live still changes MIDI timing of tracks recorded with Virus Control instantiated"

    Heres the link, if someone wants to read on.. https://www.soundonsound.com/t…ving-midi-timing-problems

    Simple googlyeyeing "midi timing problems" will give you more insight which SW/HW have these problems and how possibly fix them 8)



    Edit: more about jitter in synths https://www.innerclocksystems.com/litmus

    Hope this will give you the tools to sort out your "timing issues"

  • Contacted Access about the timing issue. here's what they had to say:


    ''When using the Virus TI plugin and using the analog outs, this cannot be delay compensated by DAWs due to technical restrictions in general. There is also no setting that would influence this at all. You can try to see if using different buffer sizes might help, but again the signal from the analog outs cannot be delay compensated in general with the plugin being in use (and this never was the case.''


    So basically there's nothing we can do to fix the timing when using the analog outs.

    Yep. Pretty-much what I thought, despite being told otherwise by various people.

  • Here is some interesting reading why that might happen, https://www.gearslutz.com/boar…-crimson.html#post9852296 the part about core audio and bit accurate drivers. It does not however offer any solutions for your timing problems, but maybe some further information how to avoid it.

    Interesting read, but the Virus Bit Accurate driver is not available on MacOS Catalina unfortunately..

    Is the "timing issue" something like this? (As I am starting to be completely out of the loop what is being complained..)


    About Cubase for example (its slightly old, things tend to change to better over time, but..yeah :/):


    "For instance, if you play regular 16th notes at 120bpm, each note will occur at an interval of 125ms, but when a soft synth is played 'live' through an audio interface with a buffer size of 5ms you'll perhaps hear them with spacings such as 125ms, 125ms, 125ms, 130ms, 120ms, 130ms, 125ms and so on, where occasional notes get shoved into adjacent buffers.

    That's exactly it! But raising or lowering the buffer size makes literally no difference... So what now?..

  • That's exactly it! But raising or lowering the buffer size makes literally no difference... So what now?..

    By trial and error? Start with all the buffers within your setup at the same amount of samples, and see which combination works out the best? :/ (You know, audio interface at 128 - virus at 128, audio at 256 - virus at 128 and via versa...and so on..) Who really knows in which way a particular daw should be set up in/and with a particular hardware.

  • By trial and error? Start with all the buffers within your setup at the same amount of samples, and see which combination works out the best? :/ (You know, audio interface at 128 - virus at 128, audio at 256 - virus at 128 and via versa...and so on..) Who really knows in which way a particular daw should be set up in/and with a particular hardware.

    Yes I've tried everything between 1024 and 64.. Either Logic Pro X's midi is just way off or it's the Virus..

  • That's awesome! Let's hope Access has the manpower to finally implement it! Don't get your hopes up though.. because that job Vacancy is still open.. https://www.virus.info/page/re…do/Job_Opportunities.html

    Maybe they'll find a contractor to do the work?

    Should be something someone could do at home, whilst in lock-down (depending on being able to have access to any necessary dev kit).

  • Maybe they'll find a contractor to do the work?

    Should be something someone could do at home, whilst in lock-down (depending on being able to have access to any necessary dev kit).


    I wouldn't bet on it. I think it's more likely someone from the Virus Community finds a DIY solution, making use of Ploytec's new driver, cos as far as Access is concerned, the TI is dead.

  • I wouldn't bet on it. I think it's more likely someone from the Virus Community finds a DIY solution, making use of Ploytec's new driver, cos as far as Access is concerned, the TI is dead.

    I don't think it's that easy. The driver on the Ploytec site is only a demo driver and audio is disrupted at intervals. Their driver will need packaging with the Access system.

  • Hello all,


    Piling on with my own disappointment about the integration situation with macOS Catalina. Luckily I haven’t upgraded from Mojave yet but obviously that day will eventually come.


    My Virus TI Polar is one of my favorite synths. If Access is listening, I’d love to see a Virus TI 3 one day and would fork over cash for one in a heartbeat if it was anywhere as good as the last one. Please don’t let this product line die.


    Just a general thought to share, but as I’ve started to play with all my synths again recently I decided to go all-hardware again, just like it was when I first got into making music and sequenced everything on my Korg M1 back when I was 13 years old. Over time, I’ve been burned repeatedly by Apple wanting me to buy Logic all over again for no particular reason other than they made the old version incompatible with their latest OS, or with other software or hardware incompatibility issues. At least with hardware, you turn the thing on and it makes noise for you. MIDI has been around since the 80s and isn’t going anywhere. Hardware sequencers have come a very long way thankfully from the 2-line LCD display on my M1. I bought an Akai MPC Live which has a giant touch screen and is a ton of fun to work on, and I have it hooked up to my rig via MIDI in the old school way. There’s definitely a ton you can do on a DAW, and if you have software synths you love there’s really no other option, but being able to work outside the computer again has really been wonderful for me. This isn’t a fix for the Virus software issue obviously but I’d certainly encourage folks to try giving a computer-less setup a spin if the opportunity presents itself.

  • Had a little fiddle with the demo driver on Mojave. Haven't gone Catalina as yet on my Music Macs, mostly due to Ti issues.


    So installed driver (usb-audio.com_3.4.11.dmg) , restarted Mac.


    In HAL folder, change name of new driver to Virus driver. Copy name, delete old package, paste to rename new. Repeat for .driver and .plugin.


    Had a look in an external Catalina install I have for Audio driver Location and found a HAL folder :-) in System/Library/Audio so guessing one should expect the usb-audio drivers to be there?


    In Logic only the Core Audio shows up and works fine which is a good sign as Bit Accurate cannot exist in Catalina, didn't get any 30 sec. beeps as advised when downloading.


    So likely Access just needs to pay for full access to new driver and compile a new installer? Plus any other bugs, hopefully that's enough for a beta at least!