USB Noise issue. Is this normal? (TI2 Desktop)

  • As far as I can figure it out, its just the insane amount of gain. If you happen to introduce ANY tiny bit of noise etc. you will get really ugly sounding artefacts. So the gain knobs are your friends after all. OTT does not seem to be any ordinary compressor / expander, not sure if it was originally meant as a distortion stomp box ^^

    you sir...
    I dunno what to say :D probably I owe you a beer or two..even if you made that story up..:D
    Gonna check it out tomorrow.
    It makes sense at first read..gain staging..mhm

    I don't use OTT, I am using other distortion fx, mostly izotope trash.

    ..i'm gonna come back to it tomorrow..

  • Did some further experiments, also with Cubase's Distroyer plugin, and I am very sure that the source of the artefacts ist not OTT (although it does some weird stuff and seems to add distortion in the upper frequency range) but the bit resolution of the Virus. It's rather easy to expose those artefacts, and you can clearly see the bit resolution show up in an oscilloscope during a long decay when boosting the oscilloscope's zoom factor.


    In the end, the Virus is an early 2000's digital hardware synth design running on roughly 20 year old DSPs. Its computing power is probably only a tiny fraction of a modern computer and is bound to produce audio artefacts. Which will become audible if boosted with extreme gain (40 - 60 dB). By applying OTT (or similar plugins) you are listening to the sound as if looking through a magnifying glass -- you hear hidden details, also unwanted ones.


    OTOH, I was not able to produce anything similar from Massive, except when applying Bitcrush in its Insert effects. Then it sounded remarkably similar to the Virus.


    IMO, it's simply the limitation of the Virus sound engine. Would be interesting to see if other VA synths behave similarly.

    Bass Player and Synthesist.
    Virus TI2 Darkstar | Virus TI2 Desktop | Moog Sub 37 | Blofeld | Machinedrum | Monomachine | Analog Four | Digitone | MPC Live | NI Maschine
    Mac OS X 10.14.6 (Mojave) | Cubase Pro 10.5 | Ableton Live 9.6 | Logic 10.4 | MainStage 3.4 | NI Komplete 12 | RME Fireface UFX+

  • I think I got it now ;( now, the virus usb is 16bit interface meaning 96db range. Whilst you record / monitor that signal with 24bit (144db range) you can pump up the artefacts (which are in this case just lack of accuracy to interpret such small signal levels) forming way below that 16bit range. This can be seen with a spectrum meter. <- this does not happen using the analog outs which are 24 bit (or happens, but somewhere way below -144db) Obviously OTT type "slight" gain boost will bring up those snap-crackle-pops and every little noisefloor/glitch/whatnot will just add to that ofcourse.



    Makes sense? :/

    Anyways, old age will get everyone eventually.

  • one eye laughs, the other cries

    So at least it's not a broken device.
    I always considered this piece of gear solid AF. And as an ultimate/optimal VA solution.
    ..and luckily it's still stands.

    I did a quick (but not neccssarily correct) search on the DSP in the TI...do you agree that - in theory - the TI can be upgraded to "work" on 24bits?
    Probably with a firmware and/or converter update I guess.

    anyway..thanks again for your time and effort!

  • You mean the usb audio? (the dsp itself is 24bit..) I would not know, atleast the company which provided the usb audio solution has a few different I/O configurations for a same chip they use. Lets assume the bandwidth is in full use already with the I/Os you have, increasing the bit depth would just mean you would need to drop the amount I/O..a lot..and just for that people can use OTT via usb and crank the gain up? naaaaaaaaah...nobody truly wants that..

  • You mean the usb audio? (the dsp itself is 24bit..) I would not know, atleast the company which provided the usb audio solution has a few different I/O configurations for a same chip they use. Lets assume the bandwidth is in full use already with the I/Os you have, increasing the bit depth would just mean you would need to drop the amount I/O..a lot..and just for that people can use OTT via usb and crank the gain up? naaaaaaaaah...nobody truly wants that..

    Yeah the USB audio and the synth code itself. So the processor is not a bottleneck technically.
    And if it's only the code, it would be possible to put a "24bit processing" button to each of the voices. I guess that's about 150% load.
    The unison knob has a similar habit :D
    The output config is quite flexible right now so it could be a user choice to sacrifice something for the sake of post process options (per project).

    I am not chasing dreams though and I am happy with the synth as it is now.
    And - with your help - now I can try to adjust my workflow for these artifacts.

  • Unfortunately things dont work like that, besides would be kinda unnecessary since thers the S/PDIF option which is 24bit and digital. Prolly in the case of OTT its even better than having a 24bit USB. Less noisefloor to be amplified :/