VIRUS CONTROL LATENCY etc.

  • Hey guys,


    I don't know whether this has been already posted or not but...
    How many of you have experienced awful latency when using TI as VST instrument (via Virus Control) when playing on 3 and more midi channels? I'm able to put down 3 or 4 midi channels with pretty basic sounds (no effects, because I prefer to use VST effects) and not too dense arrangements, and when recording 4th channel, the latency is nearly 1 second. My sound interface is most of the time set to the latency of 128 samples (Echo Audiofire6), TI's output is set to basic L + R (no surround) - I've read on some forums this may help to get rid of the latency...


    Sometimes I feel very frustrated and I rather use midi in/out and audio line out instead of using Virus as a VST instruments via USB. It's just that it is more convenient to load/edit/tweak sounds in Virus Control.


    TI's OS is updated, everything else is up to date as well (audio interface firmware, host software, computer's os...) so I don't know what am I doing wrong here...


    Computer is Macbook Pro 2.4Ghz running Leopard and Ableton Live 7.


    Don't make me sell my beautiful Polar and use VST synths instead... :-)


    Please help


    Filip

  • You will get some better latency by using the virus asio driver in your daw, but who wants to do that.


    If you would like to be able to use just the librarian part of the VC add your voice to this FR :
    http://www.virus.info/forum/in…?page=Thread&threadID=780


    Just give us a librarian and let us deal with midi sync, latency , audio compensation and for me all that usb crap could go right where it belongs, the trash bin.


    Now it^s great, if I need the VC to get some patch or do some advance editing, I need to launch a second vst host, copy the patch to the ram, close that app, and now I can use my TI again from my main audio app. It was more fun 20 years ago :rolleyes:

  • Hey guys,


    I don't know whether this has been already posted or not but...
    How many of you have experienced awful latency when using TI as VST instrument (via Virus Control) when playing on 3 and more midi channels? I'm able to put down 3 or 4 midi channels with pretty basic sounds (no effects, because I prefer to use VST effects) and not too dense arrangements, and when recording 4th channel, the latency is nearly 1 second. My sound interface is most of the time set to the latency of 128 samples (Echo Audiofire6), TI's output is set to basic L + R (no surround) - I've read on some forums this may help to get rid of the latency...


    This is strange, since all data and audio is transmitted in one block, there actually can't be latency on only one channel (except you turn up the Amp Envelope or other intended patch settings). Make sure you are using the USB outs to get the best timing.

    Don't make me sell my beautiful Polar and use VST synths instead... :-)


    Never do that :)


    -timo

  • You will get some better latency by using the virus asio driver in your daw, but who wants to do that.


    Actually, you should make sure you are using ASIO at all on Windows systems and make sure your buffer is set to 128 to 512.


    If you would like to be able to use just the librarian part of the VC add your voice to this FR :
    http://www.virus.info/forum/in…?page=Thread&threadID=780
    Just give us a librarian and let us deal with midi sync, latency , audio compensation and for me all that usb crap could go right where it belongs, the trash bin.


    Nobody prevents you from using VC just as a librarian, use the analog outs and switch of sample accuracy with the Live Mode button.


    Now it^s great, if I need the VC to get some patch or do some advance editing, I need to launch a second vst host, copy the patch to the ram, close that app, and now I can use my TI again from my main audio app. It was more fun 20 years ago :rolleyes:


    What host are you using that can't use VST plugins? If it can, you can also load VC into your "main audio app".


    -timo

  • [quote='Timo']Nobody prevents you from using VC just as a librarian, use the analog outs and switch of sample accuracy with the Live Mode button.[quote]
    Even in Live mode I get latency + you have to press the live button each time you load a project.


    But the biggest problem is that you can't access the TI directly (usb or standard midi port) once the VC is running. On my radias I can send clock and midi from my main pc/daw thru the midi port and use a netbook for editing using the usb midi port. Can't do that with the TI.
    Also I have always at least 2 apps that need access to the TI at any time, which is not possible by using the VC.


    Another problem is the clock, only the VC can send it to the TI. In my setup I have a plug that deals with the clocks, which let's me fine tune sync issues.
    Plus I can for any of my synth quickly double or half the tempo. And even more fun, I can slow or accelarate the tempo on a single synth for a few bars or whatever.
    Can't do that with the VC.



    And my hosts can use VSTi, but the VC, with it's integration nightmare, brings me more troubles than needed, so I don't use it.

  • so many posts and I have still have no idea which host you are using...


    -timo


    For what I'm talking about, the host used is totally irrevelant.
    But FYI, one pc runs an instance of Bidule standalone, then either Cubase, Live or Reaper + a custom app that deals mainly with sysex (total recal for all my synth or sysex to CC conversion kind of stuf). Note that I'm using an RME audio interface so it's multiclient.


    A second pc is running a second instance of bidule (midi only) + some other midi special stuff + my librarians for some of my synth( korg m3, radias,..)


    My problem is as follow:


    1) If I connect the TI to it's midi connectorsI can access it from any number of apps from any number of pc or hardware device: NO LIMITS (but no VC)


    2) If I use the USB for midi only then only a single pc can access the TI directly, as the standard midi port is then disabled (probably to prevent morrons to send twice the midi clock to the ti, ... gofigure) : that sucks as I can't acess the ti directly from a second pc or hw device (and no VC).


    3) NOW, if I launch the VC, then the only access to the ti is thru the VC. That means that only a single App from a single device (pc or hw) can access the TI at any time, plus you can't deal with the sync yourself + there are delay compensation errors when using the analogs out. The VC will still report a latency to the host even if the LIVE button is enabled, and this value is a total joke.


    So all I need is a VC that just deals with patches, being able to access the usb (for midi) and the midi port at the same time from any other app or pc. Like my vsynth-gt, korg m3 , radias, motif xs, ... By trying to make it better than anyone else, access just managed to make it worse, IMO off course.


    c'est simple non ? ich meine es ist einfach, nein ?

  • For what I'm talking about, the host used is totally irrevelant.


    Sometimes people think that, but actually, it is not. The VST and AU standards are constantly changing, also by communication between access and other companies. Therefore have recent versions of supported sequencers is part of the game.


    Right. Yet, no problem.


    2) If I use the USB for midi only then only a single pc can access the TI directly, as the standard midi port is then disabled (probably to prevent morrons to send twice the midi clock to the ti, ... gofigure) : that sucks as I can't acess the ti directly from a second pc or hw device (and no VC).


    It is not just preventing "twice the midi clock", the TI has a different timebase when being used in a plugin (which is currently the difference between analog outputs and usb).


    3) NOW, if I launch the VC, then the only access to the ti is thru the VC. That means that only a single App from a single device (pc or hw) can access the TI at any time, plus you can't deal with the sync yourself + there are delay compensation errors when using the analogs out. The VC will still report a latency to the host even if the LIVE button is enabled, and this value is a total joke.


    The value is an estimation. additionally, the solution for your setup would be: use Virus Control in a "standalone" host, routing "Virus TI MIDI IN" to "Virus Control", connect "Virus TI MIDI OUT" to "Virus TI MIDI IN" and use "Virus TI MIDI" as output in your MIDI application.


    So all I need is a VC that just deals with patches, being able to access the usb (for midi) and the midi port at the same time from any other app or pc. Like my vsynth-gt, korg m3 , radias, motif xs, ... By trying to make it better than anyone else, access just managed to make it worse, IMO off course.
    c'est simple non ? ich meine es ist einfach, nein ?


    You will find that you need to take care of a lot of caveats when doing it like you do. Additionally, you can not guarantee the consistency of patches etc. You also loose the total recall feature, automation lanes etc.
    I think your situation is also pretty special because only very few people do work so old fashioned today. And to make it short: you can just use some "single plugin host" (like savihost etc.) and wire it up to solve your problem.
    -timo

  • the solution for your setup would be: use Virus Control in a "standalone" host, routing "Virus TI MIDI IN" to "Virus Control", connect "Virus TI MIDI OUT" to "Virus TI MIDI IN" and use "Virus TI MIDI" as output in your MIDI application.


    That's indeed a way to do it , but that's a bit too much latency for a live set up. I use this with a groove box, which is ok as I can send the clock start message a little early, but for live playing it's just too much.


    You will find that you need to take care of a lot of caveats when doing it like you do. Additionally, you can not guarantee the consistency of patches etc. You also loose the total recall feature, automation lanes etc.
    I think your situation is also pretty special because only very few people do work so old fashioned today. And to make it short: you can just use some "single plugin host" (like savihost etc.) and wire it up to solve your problem.


    For me total recall doesn't just mean the TI , but all my synth, and in my setup, adding an extra synth is just a question of a few lines of code.
    Also, one big problem I find when using a vst for patch recall, is that it will store the CURRENT state of the synth when saving.
    In my "live sessions", I like to start with a given patch and start to do all kind of tweaking (that's what hw is for, right ?), but that doesn't mean I want this state to be saved, and if I eventualy ended with something great, I just store it in an empty slot in ram.


    Anyway, no big deal, I can live without the VC, but I wouldn't mind having it on an extra netbook just for visual feedback. That display on the polar is really small.

  • This sounds like the same problem i've been having, it is detailed in my thread here: http://www.access-music.de/for…?page=Thread&threadID=713


    I have updated the thread with new information since Marc replied to it initially, but have not received any more information since then. (it did take me a while to update it tho, as i had to find the time to perform the changes Marc suggested)


    Basically reducing the soundcard latency setting as Timo suggests above does not fix the problem, i set my motu 828 down to it's lowest buffer setting and the latency problem remained.


    If i start a blank project with only one virus part the latency is gone, no problem. As i described in my thread the latency issues only appear once several parts/outputs are used, very much like the poster of this thread describes.


    Once the latency appears, recording new midi data in the project through the VC plugin is basically impossible because of the delay in hearing the sound once a key is pressed. All my midi data appears ahead of time on the grid by almost a 1/16th note, because i'm compensating for the delay by playing the keys earlier so as to hear the sound in time with the rest of the instruments during recording.


  • What host are you using?


    -timo

  • Hey Feelda, you mentioned in your first post that you prefer to use vst effects. I was wondering if you have figured a way to use vst effects on individual parts when using the virus control. For instance, I would like to sidechain a pad on part 1/channel 1 of the virus but not the bass on part 2/channel 2. I can only place the compressor on the main virus control plug-in and it applies the effect to both parts/channels. Any suggestions?

  • Hey Feelda, you mentioned in your first post that you prefer to use vst effects. I was wondering if you have figured a way to use vst effects on individual parts when using the virus control. For instance, I would like to sidechain a pad on part 1/channel 1 of the virus but not the bass on part 2/channel 2. I can only place the compressor on the main virus control plug-in and it applies the effect to both parts/channels. Any suggestions?



    I've never tried this but I believe there is a way to do this... This would apply for ableton live: insert new audio channel and route audio from the particular VC part you wanna use the effect for. (eg: AUDIO FROM: VIRUS TI SYNTH CH1)... I know this works for some VST synths that have a multichannel capability but to be honest I do not know if that works for virus control as well... It depends how the virus TI handles audio... Maybe you want to mess around with the output settings in VC and see if you can set up multiple audio out channels for certain midi channels and then route the audio from these to your different VST effects. I'm at work as I'm typing this so I can not try it out but you check it out and see if that works... I will so do as well if I don't forget :-)

  • Hi all,


    I just bought a new desktop TI to sit along my Virus Indigo and a bunch of softwynths I'm using within Logic Studio on a 8core mac pro boosting 12GB of ram and a Motu 828 mk III.


    The problem is I can't figure out latency problems with the TI, I tested my setup playing a part on the TI routing it to out 1L+R (physical NOT usb) and recording the track again on an audio track. It seems that the virus is about 1/32 to soon.


    Also when I just play the virus through usb outs I can't figure out the timing issues, but I hear that it is in no way in sync with the rest of the project, recording any other hardware synth is not an issue so there is no noticeable latency with my Motu soundcard.


    Is there a way to figure this out, and can anybody help me with this?


    grtz


    pieter

  • Hey Feelda, thanks for your reply. That sounds like it should work, I am not going to be able to try it probally until next weekend, but I will try this right away. This would a great help because we can only open one instance of Virus Control. I love the virus onboard effects but I really need to use the compressor. Thanks a bunch, I will see if this works as soon as possible. All the best



  • Hi,


    i have the same computer and i have the same issue with my TI2 desktop on Ableton Live and a RME soundcard.


    do you think the virus TI tempo was not regular when you use USB out ? I have this feeling and it's very difficult to work with this problem.

  • Hi marc,


    i have already try to records a channel of the tutorial song on a new audio track.


    and if i records Several times the same channel, the records sound was never records at the same place exactly.


    DPC latency exist on OSX ? and if yes how to check this ?