Posts by MusicMaven

    I've been harping on this subject for a couple of years now. Unfortunately, Access is apparently never going to listen to their users and release a MIDI editor version of the Virus Control. As someone mentioned, this would be tantamount to admitting the company made a mistake in adopting the limited-bandwidth USB 1 protocol for the TI.


    I finally voted with my pocketbook and sold the TI. I went back to using my Kb which sounds better and still works great with my SoundDiver editor. I only wish I could get back those countless hours of frustration trying to get the TI to work.

    It's cool that Access continues to add new features to the Virus TI - and at no cost to customers. But I have to think that if users had the choice, most of them would prefer having a standalone MIDI (including MIDI over USB) version of Virus Control rather than a couple of extra envelopes and a few new filter effects.


    It seems like a no brainer - a version of Virus Control that actually works vs. more features on an already feature-rich instrument.


    Access could eliminate probably 80% of their support issues with this one simple step. And I say simple because it just involves sending sys-ex data (and/or NRPM's) between the Virus and the editor. This isn't rocket science. The hard parts - designing the GUI and implementing OS file handling - are already done.


    The significantly lower support costs would almost certainly more than pay for the small investment in the standalone editor. It's a win for everyone. The only thing holding this back is Access' apparent arrogant intransigence and unwillingness to admit that they can't get the current plug-in version of Virus Control to work (for most users) after 5 years of trying.


    Thoughts?

    Good for you! :-) More people should flip Access the "virtual bird" (by selling their TI) and then maybe the company would be more motivated to develop a standalone MIDI editor version of Virus Control that actually works.


    Regarding your comment that the era of hardware synths is over, I really wish I could get rid of ALL my hardware synths. But in addition to the analog stuff (Prophet '08 rack, Pulse, MKS-50, Matrix-1000,) there are digital synths like my Nord Racks (1 and 3,) MicroWave, etc.that sound totally unique and can't be replaced by plug-ins (at least not currently). Even my XV-5080 can't really be replaced by any single plug-in (although the combination of Kontakt and Omnisphere probably sounds better and can arguably do a lot more).


    Anyway, enjoy the MS-20 and Minimoog. You definitely made the right choice, IMO.

    Excuse me for this intervention but the fact that you "just bought it" means to me that you've not even had the time to try and fix the situation. The TI isn't a magical piece of hardware that can be used in whatever computer situation. Like every USB device that streams lots of data, (Sound Cards, Graphic Acquisition Cards, Video streaming) it needs a correct setup in order to work. There's a whole document called the Setup Guide which guides the user through correcting bandwidth issues and sharing USB ports which I highly suggest you read. The high price of a Virus TI also comes with one of the best support services I've met in my "customer" life. Very quick and precise in addressing user troubles. You can contact it through the form on the main website http://www.virus.info/page/ren…ontact_and_resources.html


    Rest assured that other users like me aren't having fun of those of us who have problems with their system but can do very little to help in such situations when there's more complaining that actual data to work on, for example the system's full specs.

    Oh piss off, you patronizing twit. Your condescension wouldn't be so annoying if your underlying point wasn't so idiotic. No one is expecting their TI to operate "magically." They do expect a $3,000 synth to actually work as advertised, however - something that the Virus TI does not do reliably for a large percentage of users.


    Is it really expecting so much to plug something in and have it just work? What if someone said, "Well, electricity is this complicated thing and you need to 'prepare' the wiring in your house before you can reasonably expect the Virus to turn on when you plug it in." You would laugh them out of the room.


    Why should audio and MIDI communication be any different? - something that works perfectly well on almost every other well-designed, professional musical device? You should be able to plug the Virus in to your USB port and have the audio & MIDI simply work, just like the power does when you plug the unit into the wall. After all, practically every other USB device on the planet just works when you plug it in to your computer (after installing any necessary drivers of course). That's why it's called "plug and play."


    The fact that you can't do this with the Virus points to a fundamental flaw in its design.

    Do you absolutely need a hardware synth to replace the Virus? Although the engines are quite different, Omnisphere is just as cool as the Virus in its own way - the modulation options, effects, etc. are as powerful and good-sounding as anything in the Virus.


    Sure, there are a lot of things that the Virus does better, but Omnisphere has A LOT going for it as well (and not just the 7,000+ killer patches that come with it). Most people would be surprised to learn what a versatile synth Omnisphere is.


    You do need a pretty powerful computer to run several Omnisphere parts. That's where the Virus is great because it doesn't place any serious demands on your computer.


    Anyway, it's something to think about. :-)

    I don't really know that much about computers & how they work, hence this potentially stupid question.


    If it's right that just having other objects in the environment upset the Virus, then does that not mean that the problem is more likely to be with Logic rather than the Virus?

    There is no doubt that the performance/reliability of VC in Logic is way worse than in Cubase 6, for instance. However, I still experience the litany of issues in Cubase if my project has any complexity to it.


    Incidentally, by way of comparison, my Vienna Symphonic Library running on a slave PC connected to my iMac via Gigabit Ethernet works flawlessly - 32 tracks of REAL TIME audio piped into Logic with absolutely no latency whatsoever. There are no dropouts, no glitches, nothing. It just works. That's the kind of performance that a professional company delivers. Not this buggy, flakey crap that Access is peddling.



    Vienna has the right to use the term "Total Integration," not Access.

    let me quote mmathews: "You really want me to make a project with one small 4 bar miidi clip with a few notes on it." and now ask you: is that so different to what you say above in terms of our supposed NAMM show situation? i don't think so.
    marc

    I'm sorry, are you daft? The POINT is that a simple 4 bar MIDI sequence will "trip up" the Virus when you have anything more going on in your Logic Environment than Virus Control - even when these other elements (other instruments and effects, audio inputs, outboard MIDI connections, etc.) are not active. In other words, if you try to use VC in conjunction with anything else in Logic, it won't work (at least on the iMac in question). You can't even play back a simple 4 bar sequence without sync issues, audio glitches, etc.


    The original poster is right, Virus Control is complete junk. And Access are either "willfully ignorant" or totally clueless for saying otherwise.

    we had an iMac on NAMM back in january, running logic, it was the latest at this time. we didn't experience what you experience over the duration of the show.
    marc

    I've heard this one before. As a veteran of many, many NAMM shows, I'll bet my Virus TI that you were running just the TI in Logic, right? No other Logic instruments, no third party Audio Units, no MIDI gear, no external audio inputs, etc. In other words, you were not demonstrating the Virus in any sort of real world situation and not placing any significant demands on the system. So it's not surprising that you didn't encounter any problems (over a few days).


    I will literally buy that iMac from you and hook it up to my equipment just to show you that Virus Control doesn't work for crap in Logic. I'm serious.


    To the people who are experiencing problems running VC in Logic, I have two words of advice: Give up. You will NOT get this to work no matter what you try. Trust me. I spent the better part of two months dicking around with this. Just connect your TI via MIDI and be done with it. Program everything from the front panel (as cumbersome as that can be sometimes.) Then send a sys-ex dump into your sequencer to store your patch or multi with the song file. THAT actually works.

    i read another thread and it advised to use a shorter usb cable than the one provided by access i found one at work measuring just over 30cm.. and i have had two small sync issues all afternoon. that is a major improvement. - i know it sounds strange but it appears to have worked.. for the moment anyway. ill use it some more and see what happens.


    Thanks.

    I really hope this works out for you. But I would wait a bit before celebrating. I also tried a variety of cables of varying lengths. Things would sometimes improve for a little while (usually having nothing to do with any of the changes I had made). But sooner or later I would be plagued with sync issues, garbled audio, random disconnections, constant restarts, etc. It's a complete joke.

    i spend nearly two days now trying to figure out what the actual problem is. here's what i've done:
    - playing various test arrangements i have in order to understand when those weirds sounds as described come in. well, they didn't.
    - measuring the arp against logic's metronome and playback midi notes to see, if there is an offset. this includes a tremendous amount of start/stop/continue action. sometimes, the arp was off when i started in at an odd time but was spot on on the next bar again.


    this is with 10.7, logic 9.1.5. and the latest public beta on the virus' side using a mac book pro from mid 2011 with an i7 processor. now, i don't really know how to comment on all above, at least not with something meaningful. can somebody point me into the right direction so i can reproduce you problems? we only can fix what we can reproduce.
    thanks, marc

    While these problems are not exclusive to iMac/Logic setups, this configuration seems to be the most problematic. So if you are running Logic on a MacBook, it's entirely possible that it will work just fine.


    But almost everyone who has posted recently about experiencing problems with their Virus and Logic is using an iMac Core i5 or i7. As you may know, there is no way to connect the Virus "directly" to these iMacs. The external USB ports are connected to internal hubs.


    Also, your suggestion to connect a USB hub between the iMac and the Virus DOES NOT WORK. So you should probably stop offering this suggestion without explicitly stating that this "solution" will not work all on systems. Otherwise people like myself will continue to waste money buying external hubs that don't work.


    And by "don't work," I mean the Virus Control software will not even start up when a hub is inserted between the Virus and iMac. A message appears within the VC window instructing the user to remove the hub. There is no way to proceed. How do you not know this?


    Anyway, until you test Virus Control on a newer iMac, you won't be able to provide any meaningful assistance.


    BTW, does anyone at Access actually read these troubleshooting posts? If so, I would expect someone to have tried this out already - especially when the company continues to sell a product that clearly doesn't work for a lot of users. I would think the company might be concerned about its reputation and perhaps have some moral qualms about fleecing users out of their hard earned money with bullshit promises of "total integration."

    Here's what you need to do to set up the Virus TI via USB MIDI and standard audio via the main analog outs on the Virus. (As with all things Logic, there are probably 5 different ways of going about this. But this is probably the easiest).


    You will NOT need a MIDI interface if this is your only MIDI device. You MAY want to get an inexpensive audio interface for your iMac. But you can always use the analog input on the iMac in a pinch. If you use the iMac input, you will just need a Dual RCA to stereo mini jack cable and then a couple of RCA to 1/4" adapters. (I have never seen a quarter inch to 1/8th inch stereo cable but someone probably makes one.) Then connect the main analog outs of the Virus to the iMac's input via the cable (with 1/4" adapters on the RCA ends).


    Once you've done this, now it's time to set up Logic:

    • Set Logic to use the iMac's own Core Audio driver in the Audio Preferences window
    • Create a new MIDI multi device in Logic's Environment
    • Click on each box within the MIDI multi device to enable all 16 MIDI channels
    • Set the Port of this MIDI Multi Device to Virus TI MIDI
    • Now create a new multi-timbral Software Instrument using the "New" track command in the arrange window. (Make sure to check the Multi-timbral box.)
    • Assign the External Instrument "plug-in" type to the channel strip of one of the new tracks. (All tracks will "point to" the same instrument - they just access different MIDI channels of this instrument.)
    • Open the External Instrument settings for this channel strip (just like you would open any other plug-in window)
    • Assign the Virus TI MIDI MIDI multi device to the MIDI input of this External Instrument (in its setting window)
    • Assign the iMac's analog input as the audio input for the External Instrument
    • Now to access each part within a Virus multi, select that track/channel strip in the arrange window

    Hopefully this gives you enough info to go on.


    Regarding your other questions, yes, you will be able to apply Logic's effects to the Virus channel strip just like any other Logic instrument or plug-in. However, you would need to get a multi-input audio interface and connect all of the Virus's analog outputs to this interface if you want to apply effects to more than one mixer channel.


    Although it sounds a bit complicated at first, this setup is 100% rock solid. The Virus will sync flawlessly and there will be no weird audio glitches. :-)


    Now if Access would just pull their heads out of the sand and create a MIDI-based standalone editor, you could leave the nightmare of Virus Control behind you. (Don't hold your breath on this one. Access is apparently committed to flogging this dead horse.)

    I have experienced all the problems that the original poster has described with his Virus/Logic setup. I spent over a month (and probably an hour or two each night) troubleshooting these issues. I literally tried every possible solution that was offered on this site and others. Nothing worked.


    So I just gave up and have been using the Virus TI via MIDI ever since. I couldn't handle the daily aggravation any more. I felt as you did that Access sold me a product that doesn't work as promised. But rather than continue to be pissed off and annoyed, I simply moved on. I suspect there is a LARGE contingent of disappointed Virus TI users who have done the same thing.


    Don't get me wrong, it's complete bullshit that Access continues to sell something that is so problematic. On what planet are you supposed to spend months and months trying to get a product that cost over $2,000 to work? People on this forum continue to make excuses like it's just part of owning a Virus TI - something to be expected. Huh? That's insane.


    If Vienna Symphonic Library can get their Ensemble plugin to work flawlessly over Ethernet and stream 32 (!) channels of audio with zero latency (literally ZERO latency,) why can't Access get 2 channels of audio to work?


    There I go, getting riled up again. LOL. Better not to think about it and just stick with MIDI.

    I have had nothing but problems trying to get the Virus Control software working in Logic 9. From sync issues to garbled audio, the system simply doesn't work. So I finally just gave up and have been using my TI keyboard via MIDI (with no problems at all).


    But just for kicks, I tried using Virus Control in Cubase 6 today. This was on the same computer (iMac Core i7) with all the same settings and connections. And you know what, Virus Control works great in Cubase!


    Although Cubase is an excellent program, I'm a long-time Logic user/fan and am not prepared to make the switch just so I can use Virus Control with my TI.


    So my question is whether there is something inherently flakey with Apple's Audio Unit standard or is the AU version of Virus Control just poorly written (compared to the VST version)? In other words, does Apple need to update Logic to integrate better with USB audio plugins or does Access need to write a better AU version of Virus Control?


    Who's fault is it?

    Hi All,


    I was hoping someone would please verify that the Virus TI Local off setting does not "stick," i.e, persist between active and sleep states of the TI. To confirm this, please:

    • Unplug the USB cable from your Virus. (You might want to save any song you are working on first)
    • Click the "CONFIG" button on the front panel of the TI
    • Navigate to page 1 (of 5) in the Keyboard section of the Config menus
    • Turn the Local setting to "Off". (You might have to dial the soft knob all the way around then back to turn off this parameter)
    • Put your TI to sleep by pressing and holding the two Transpose buttons for a couple of seconds
    • Wake the TI from sleep by pressing these same two Transpose buttons
    • Click the Config button once again and check the Local On/Off setting


    My local setting keeps reverting to the "On" state which is annoying. When this happens, the Virus is playing its sounds along with whatever sound source I have selected in my sequencer.


    Please note that this issue does not apply when using the Virus Control software. I am running the TI via MIDI only.


    Thanks for your help!

    Hi Joe,


    I have a pretty large Logic template as well. Although I'm not maxing out my system (yet,) I did try to set Logic's processor buffer to Medium and Large just to see if that would, by some miracle, help resolve the many issues I have been experiencing trying to run Virus Control in Logic. Unfortunately, setting the buffer range to anything but Small just made these problems worse.


    However, I highly doubt setting the buffer size to Medium or Large would cause any damage. So if you can get it to work most of the time, I would just leave the buffer set to Large. It sounds like you don't really have a choice. :-)


    The other (unattractive) option is to run the Virus via MIDI only and just do everything from the front panel of the Virus. This works flawlessly for me.

    GREAT setup you have there ;)
    I guess that it's just too much i/o for Logic to follow.
    I fear upgrading your mac won't help too much. You could check if it works with another software (e.g. Ableton Live). I have the slight feeling that Logic + multiple Audio interfaces (which the TI wants to be) just don't match that well. And no, I wouldn't let go of Logic, either... but just maybe worth a try.
    Good luck!

    Thanks for the comment regarding my setup. I feel like I finally have the "perfect" collection of gear (for me). It's a lot of fun. :-)


    That's a really good suggestion to try running Virus Control in another DAW just to see if these issues are Logic-specific or instead have something to do with the number of audio channels/inputs in my setup. I have a copy of Cubase 5. I'll fire that up and give it a go. I would imagine that Cubase is probably the one DAW that is most likely to work.


    Even if this doesn't work, I've made the decision to hang on to the TI. It really is a great-sounding synth and has a nice keyboard action (and looks cool as well!) I have been using the TI via MIDI only and creating my multis and doing basic patch edits from the front panel. It's a little clunky, and too menu-driven at times. But at least it works reliably (flawlessly in fact). :-)

    Then why has Marc posted on this forum several times that the TI is 2.0??


    http://virus.info/forum/index.…ead&threadID=259&pageNo=2


    Educate yourself....

    Why is it that people who don't know what they are talking about persist in making fools of themselves? Launch the System Profiler app on your Mac, open the USB section, and read what it says for your Virus TI connection speed. The TI, a USB1 device, operates at 12 megabits per second. (USB2 operates at 480 Mbps.)


    Can we move on now?

    Here's my setup:


    * iMac Core i7 with 12 GB RAM running latest version of Snow Leopard
    * Virus TI2 keyboard running the latest OS (4.5.0.16) connected directly to port 1 on the iMac
    * Logic Pro v9.1.4 running in 64-bit mode with 32-bit bridge running various plug-ins (e.g., Albino, Sylenth, etc.) that are not available in 64-bit versions
    * MOTU 828mk3 audio interface connected via Firewire 800
    * Two Alesis AI3 8-channel audio I/O units connected to the MOTU via standard lightpipe connectors
    * 7-port current model Belkiin USB2 hub plugged into USB port 4 on the iMac. The hub is attached to the following devices:
    - emagic AMT8 MIDI interface
    - USB dongles for various plug-ins (VSL, etc.)
    - Receiver for Logitech USB wireless mouse
    * Two slave PCs running Vienna Symphonic Library and connected via MIDI to the AMT 8
    * Various hardware synths connected to the AMT via MIDI:
    - Dave Smith Poly Evolver Rack
    - Dave Smith Prophet '08 Rack
    - Nord Rack
    - Nord Rack 3
    - Oberheim Matrix-1000
    - Waldorf MicroWave
    - Waldorf Pulse


    I have tried EVERY possible manner of connecting the Virus (different USB port combinations, hub/no-hub, using analog outs, etc.) every possible setting in Logic (processor buffer sizes, latency compensation on/off, etc.,) every possible setting in the MOTU interface (different latencies, clock rates, clock sources, etc). NOTHING works.


    After more than a month of dicking around with this, I have come to the painful conclusion that the Virus Control plug-in simply does not work with my model iMac and Logic. There is literally nothing else I can try at this point. So I have a few options:

    • Sell the TI and go back to using my Virus Kb
    • Use the TI via MIDI only (which works perfectly well with no LFO/arpeggiator syncing issues whatsover except I have to forgo the rich editing interface of the Virus Control software - the reason I upgraded from my trusty Virus Kb in the first place)
    • Sell my iMac and pay an additional 3 grand to purchase a separate 27" Apple Display and Mac Pro tower with "direct" USB ports (i.e., no hubs)

    I would seriously consider #3 except I have no faith that this will work either.

    Here's another thread with posts on this topic:


    http://virus.info/forum/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=2676



    But let's keep your new thread going to address these specific issues in Logic.


    I have exactly the same issues that you report when trying to run the Virus Control plug-in in Logic. It's beyond annoying, bordering on deceptive marketing to say that this even works at all in Logic.


    I have 20+ years experience working in the MI (Musical Instrument) industry. I have developed content for some of the most popular products in this space and as a Product Manager at one of the leading companies helped design a software sampler.


    So I know a thing or two about this stuff. And I what I do know is that Virus Control is a total POS and that Access should be embarrassed to even release such crap. I would get fired if I released a buggy, non-functional product like this (and then spent 5 years pulling peoples' chains with promises that the next update is going to solve their problems).


    Not cool.