Beiträge von jim_griff

Here are the steps I've taken, and it has worked quite well:

1. Installed PCI-e USB 2.0 adapter card for the Virus TI.
2. Bought a power conditioner and am using that for the main studio gear connected to the computer and the computer itself.
3. Replaced standard IEC1363 strip sockets with surge protected ones, making sure to connect everything to the power conditioner so there's no possibility of ground loops. (Audio equipment is usually not grounded to Earth anyway, but may aswell make sure.)
4. Cleaned the USB cable connectors with lighter fluid (or can be done with any other solvent) to remove any grease.
5. Disabled 'Selective Suspend' by using a registry hack.
6. Used an SSD drive for System paging file.
7. Disabled ALL CPU power saving optimisations in BIOS. C1E state, C3, C6, C7, EIST Function, Intel TurboBoost®, Thermal Function, etc etc etc.
8. Double checked voltages fed to motherboard components with multimeter and increased the voltage where necessary (DDR3 Memory +0.04V).
9. **Downgraded the Virus TI back to OS 4.0.5.01 because anything after that causes the arpeggio to play out of time by -11ms no matter what I do. I will NOT upgrade to the latest version until it is fixed. See THIS THREAD // SAMPLE MP3 // SAMPLE PROJECT (with extras)

I hope this chunk of information helps others who have had similar problems.

Zitat von AtonyB

warranty alert!

You should talk to support again explaining why it must be the virus misbehaving...

I'll contact support again before opening it up. I believe it may be out of warranty now anyway, but will double check first.

Zitat von AtonyB

Sounds to me like it's time to debug...

I'm going to open up the Virus TI and take a peek inside and prod around with my oscilloscope probes. I'm guessing it'll be like most hardware where the RF shielding isn't adequate.

1. PCI-e USB 2.0 card installed on a PCI-e x1 slot that is NOT on a shared buss. Virus TI connected to it.

2. Power Conditioner installed and fully functioning. Line voltage measures between 240 and 260 volts depending on time of day. Amperage is a constant 1.6 amps, showing no current spikes which would indicate a fault in a piece of equipment (it only jumps up by about 0.2 amps (~50 watts) when the CPU or graphics card are under high load). All of these pieces of hardware currently connected to it: PC, TR-8 Monitors, MOTU 24 i/o, Roland XV-2020, Roland SH-32, Virus TI, Dell LCD display.

3. Tested thoroughly and still getting "USB connection has been lost" errors occasionally.
-- No current/voltage spikes are shown on the display of the power conditioner when this happens, showing that it is not my electric supply - unless there are very transient power spikes that may not be measured, but these high frequency spikes would be filtered by the coils in the conditioner itself.

It won't stay in tune and keeps wobbling up and down by a few cents. I've had to fiddle with the ASIO sample buffer to get it to play in tune with everything else, but it still goes out after a couple of minutes of staying in tune.

I originally thought this was an analog emulation algorithm but have recently trawled the forums and found it is a serious bug that PC users have when using it through USB.

Here's a screenshot and a test file to demonstrate how bad it can get. I reduced the ASIO sample buffer to 32 samples running at 96kHz to exaggerate what it usually sounds like.

unstable pitch.mp3 - unstable pitch.jpg

My workaround:
1. When pitch is unstable (most of the time), I mess around with the ASIO buffer size until it decides to hold pitch.
2. I bounce down to an audio track quickly before it goes out of pitch again.
3. IF 'UNSTABLE' THEN GOTO 1, ELSE GOTO 4
4. END

I'm not really bothered about help with this one. Just thought I'd post it here in case anyone else was wondering about the 'analog emulation bug' and the workaround that might be effective for other users.

Just a quick note for people:

If you have a 'Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD7' Motherboard, the Virus TI will not work correctly when plugged into the onboard USB 3.0 ports. I would suggest using the main USB 2.0 ports (highlighted in yellow on the back of the board.)

Leaving this note here in case anyone searches for help for this motherboard model.

Jim.

Zitat von AtonyB

never the less - I think the results of testing it on a pc not in such an area might be useful - that is, if you are waiting a long time for the conditioner... Obviously seeing it run smoothly will give evidence that it is a power problem and not a faulty Virus or PSU.

Update:

Power conditioner arrived. I still need to create a kettle-cord connector so I can plug my Virus TI into it. It's actually been running pretty well since I installed the PCI-e USB card, but I have been running it at night when the power supply is more constant. Hopefully it'll be perfect when plugged into the power conditioner.

Zitat von AtonyB

Have you tried taking it to a mate's house and on their computer? Preferably a mate who isn't on the same block or side of town you are...

I have had the Virus TI at two different houses with three different computer systems/specs, each with the same result.

It's actually been running perfectly for the past few hours. I just did an all-nighter, but I suppose people aren't switching things on and off during the night which would cause the problem to occur.

I think the biggest culprit is noisy power lines that will be sorted as soon as my Power Conditioner arrives tomorrow (just been dispatched next day delivery.) Middlewich has a lot of factories down the road using a LOT of power, so I think that's what the problem has been all this time. *crosses fingers this final solution works*!

Zitat von AtonyB

True, but we should still try to get the poor guy's virus working properly, although it is clear that he is using (in one way or another) hardware that is not really up to the job...

jim_griff - what about the USB cable? Are you using the one that came with, have you tried using a different one? Probably not the source of the problem, but simple enough to check - you don't want to go through all this nonsense over a duff cable...

Thanks very much for all your help. It does seem pretty straight forward - all the things I should've done in the first place, but didn't think of doing.

I have tried many different USB cables, but they are all the same.

The last thing to sort (before selling the Virus TI) is the power, but they are still trying to get hold of discontinued stock that is lying around somewhere - Samson Powerbrite PB10 Pro. It acts as a surge protector, a filter and conditioner all in one, as well as having Volt and Amp displays to show any problems with the power supply.

If all is still bad, I'll probably sell the Virus and invest in another synthesizer of similar calibre - even though there aren't many out there with the same functionality in the same price range!

Thanks, Jim.

Zitat von AtonyB

Is your PC reasonably powerful, too (specs)? You do say USB 3 is crackling, maybe that comes at the end of the data and doesn't always make it through...

Promising that the USB PCIe card improved it, though...

Core i7 3.33GHz Extreme 6-core
12GB Corsair RAM 1333MHz (running at 1066MHz for stability)
MOTU 24i/o interface
StarTech USB 2.0 PCI-e card (for the Virus TI)
SSD hard drive for running Windows and projects from.

I'm using a 1kW Thermaltake PSU, so voltage drops caused by power drain shouldn't be a problem. My PC runs pretty cool in terms of temperature too.

I think there are two problems with the Virus that I have seen many people have:

1. USB bandwidth problems caused by many factors - I might try using only two USB audio outputs into Cubase to solve this issue.
2. CPU power within the Virus TI not being adequate enough to play large patches or have as many loaded simultaneously, even if they aren't currently being played - This is harder to solve, since it means bouncing down audio then choosing the -Init- patch on every single channel before using another patch. Maybe investing in the TI2 might go towards solving this issue.

Zitat von AtonyB

Yes, please do, will be interesting to see...

It's running a bit smoother on the PCI-e USB card, but still getting "USB connection has been lost" occasionally. There is still crackling on USB audio output 3 in Cubase and the odd Arpeggio timing error (running at half speed then double speed to catch up) but it's not as often or as severe as before.

Still waiting for my Power Conditioner to arrive. They don't have it in stock but say it should be here by the end of February. *crosses fingers.

Zitat von AtonyB

Trying to pick through what you said - I assume that you arent actually using a 'hub' for the virus as you cant. Depending on your motherboard you will probably only have one USB device on your pc, so although you are using a different pair of connectors, you will probably be using the same bandwidth. Although the bandwidth usage isnt exactly critically high, the poor condition of your mains power may be a final straw to break that camels back (at least for enough of the time to disrupt the connection).

Are any of your devices likely to vary the bandwidth they use (e.g. video devices)?

Also, has your virus always done this?

Tried on every single USB port with no other devices connected - in case it was a bandwidth issue. I know two ports on the motherboard are definitely not hubs (as some motherboards have hubs instead of dedicated ports on them.) The two USB 3.0 ports on the motherboard don't allow the Virus TI software to install as it doesn't even detect that it's connected.

I moved the USB cable and kept it away from other cables to reduce any possible RF interference. I cleaned the connectors and it made a bit of a difference. It would play properly without the arpeggio speeding up and slowing down, with a LOT less crackling on USB audio output 3.

I'm now buying a dedicated PCI-e card with USB 2.0 connectors, and will also purchase a good quality surge protected strip socket for the PC and Virus TI. Will let you know how it goes.

Oh, and yes. I have always had this problem with the Virus TI, in different houses aswell as with different computer systems. It just seems to be more severe now than when I first bought it, and now is interfering with creativity a lot more

Here's a demo of the gremlins currently inhabiting my Virus TI:-

TI Problem 1.mp3
This is when it decided to carry on playing one of the arpeggio chords over the top of everything else. Some clicks are also present.

TI Problem 2.mp3
Finally playing the arpeggio correctly, but it decided to carry on clicking through USB output 3, which NOTHING was even routed to! The synth was playing through USB output 1.

TI Problem 3.mp3
About 3 minutes into the project and I started to fiddle with the EQ on the hihats. Guess what... USB connection lost.

Enjoy the samples!

One more post:

1. The Virus TI has done the 'USB connection lost' for the past hour - once every 2 or 3 mins.

2. It is now deciding to play the arpeggios slow, then fast, trying to catch up with itself.

3. I have solo'd one sound which is playing through USB output 1 - there are additional 'clicks' coming from USB output 3 when nothing is even routed to those outputs. I'm guessing this is caused by USB errors.

There seems to be a USB bandwidth problem for the Virus TI which is causing it to mess up all the time. I have the TI running on its own USB port which is not shared. I have done ALL optimisations. My power supply is perfect (unless I am plugging/unplugging large pieces of equipment like my subwoofer that cause a tiny power spike.)

I have never ever seen any other USB device have so many issues, and have never had to solve any issues by investing in additional hardware just to get them working correctly.

I have had enough. I am shelving my Virus TI for now, and will probably sell it in the coming months.

Thanks for all the advice and help from everyone who has replied to this thread.

Jim.

Please please please... I am down on my knees right now, begging... (well, at the computer keyboard)

Please could the Access team possibly think about changing the USB communication protocol for the Virus TI?

This IS the main issue I believe, since other USB devices don't crash every time I switch my subwoofer on. The Virus TI just decides that as soon as there's a slight USB error that it will completely disconnect the Virus from the computer and require itself to be switched off and on again.

I am sure you have a lot on your plate with other updates, but maybe this might be a quick fix instead of people having to buy extra PCI-e USB cards just to get the buggy Virus TI working. I have very little experience with computer programming, but surely it would just be the simple case of writing the protocol so that the Virus TI retries connection a few times when there's a tiny error - instead of completely disconnecting itself?

Just an idea anyway. Might solve the issue for many people.

Zitat von AtonyB

- You could also have a dodgy PSU for your virus... Is it Desktop or Keyboard (ie internal psu or external)?

- Surge protection is an obvious tester, too, as surge protecting plugs are cheap and possibly you want one for your virus anyway.

- Do you have much going on with your USB? Are there lots of devices on it (what is there?) - It might be borderline with what you have and noise on the powerline manages to reduce bandwidth by JUST enough (perhaps...). If you can force the error repeatably by switching lights or whatever you might want to try removing stuff like webcams, sound cards, even mice and keyboards (you dont need to remove everything) and see if you can still force the error after. This doesn't rule out an issue with the USB on your motherboard (which I assume you are using), so if you don't mind the speculation you can still go for a PCI(e) USB card.

- If all else fails, I might buy the virus off you

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It's actually been fine for the past few days with the odd crash here and there. I've ordered a surge protected strip socket and will test it with that.

I have many devices plugged into USB ports but that doesn't seem to make a difference whether they're plugged in at the same time or not. I have the Virus plugged into its own two-port USB hub connected directly to the motherboard with no other device connected that would otherwise share bandwidth. It's using about 62% of the bandwidth as reported by Windows.

I have one spare PCI-e x1 slot so will invest in a USB controller to test it.

Thanks, Jim.

Zitat von Roby31

All the three options (surge protection, UPS and dedicated card taking its power from the PCI/PCIe bus instead of the main mainboard rails) could help very much in your electrical problems and also be a decent investment if you intend on using your computer for whatever purpose. If the power is indeed so unstable, it is not only interrupting your workflow, it's probably wearing your computer too

It's actually not that bad. The lights hardly flicker (apart from in the early morning when the factories switch on some equipment down the road.) I think it might just be localised noise on the grid, like voltage drops when people switch on high current devices like ovens, or I switch on my huge 15" subwoofer which runs off the same strip socket as the Virus. It tends to do it at random intervals during projects too, so I was guessing it was something to do with USB errors (maybe a bad connection on the back of the Virus - it is a bit loose when plugging it in but has always felt a little loose since I bought it.)

Anyway, thanks to all for the great replies. I'll try some of those methods for dealing with the issue.

Zitat von Ruari

I'm by no means an expert on this kind of thing but to me it sounds like an electricity/power management issue, for the sake of troubleshooting, do you have your equipment connected via some sort of surge protection?

If you are using Windows have you unticked the box marked "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power" in the Power Management page of the USB root hub?

Also if you are worried about sudden fluctuations in power you could maybe consider investing in an Uninterruptable Power Supply, here's an article from Sound on Sound about them, it may help.

I've tried all of the above, apart from using an Uninterruptable Power Supply (thanks for the link.)

It is not connected through any surge protection equipment. Might be worth looking into some.

All Power Saving options have been disabled, aswell as 'Selective Suspend' in advanced power saving options. "Allow computer to turn off..." has been disabled on all USB ports. The Virus TI has been connected to every available connection even wtih no other USB hardware connected, but still exhibits the same problem.

I think I'll try the option of investing in a PCI-e USB 2.0 card and see if that makes a difference. Maybe it will provide enough current to the USB port, or another option I haven't yet tried is the special feature on my Gigabyte motherboard. It has the option to increase the available current supplied to the front USB connectors for things like iPhone charging. Worth a try, I guess.

Thanks, Jim.

Zitat von Ruari

Thats not normal, do the lights dim in your house as more people in the street start to turn their lights on?

What happens if you switch the kettle on?

What part of the world are you in?

How old is the wiring in your house?

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I have had this problem since I bought the Virus TI and in several different houses with different computers. This problem has been the most persistent out of all the other problems I've had with the TI, which is why I am seriously considering selling it.

"Switch the kettle on?" = no problem
"Part of world I live in?" = England
"How old is wiring?" = I'd guess between 10-15 years

The lights dim in the house when the factories down the road switch things on, but this doesn't usually cause the TI to disconnect. It's usually when things are plugged in, or the lights switched on/off - occasionally. But it is definitely something to do with power spikes that causes it to happen. I can make it happen 100% of the time by switching on my subwoofer. That's the only piece of equipment that is guaranteed to make it lose USB connection.

I have thought about buying a PCI-express USB hub, but I doubt it would make any difference. I will try it, though, but I believe the best 'fix' would be for the software developers to change the communication protocol so the Virus TI doesn't decide to completely disconnect any time there is a slight error in the USB connection. Just a thought.

Thanks, Jim.

Hi all,

I'm sure you ALL know about this bug. There is no way to solve it for me, so I will be selling my Virus TI very soon. I have lost the will to create music, since for years I have put up with this problem and no solution has ever been offered.

"USB Connection Lost" - This is mostly caused whenever someone turns on an electric device in the local vicinity. It causes a slight power spike/dip that instantly causes the Virus TI to lose its USB connection. Whenever switching a light on/off in the house, or even switching a piece of studio equipment on/off, the Virus TI instantly loses connection and the sound that was playing loops in the buffer constantly.

There is no way to solve the issue, since I cannot ask the neighbours to keep their fingers away from light switches, or tell them to not switch on their oven when they want to cook something. My usual workaround is to switch the Virus TI off and on again, then close and reopen Cubase. This I tend to do about once every 3 or 4 minutes, since the Virus TI crashes a lot.

I'm curious how many other people have put up with this 'quirk' for the past few years.

Thanks, Jim.