Posts by Lightsound

    the latency is not very variable. the problem is that the sequencer change the latency under certain circumstances, for instance when you select a track versus you don't select it. it doesn't change with anything you do on virus, it only changes depending on the playback system and with certain operations. but i guess that's already unpredictable enough when you're focusing on your music. but if you put a midi delay on all tracks routed to the analogue outs of the virus and you make sure that you decide beforehand if this delay is accurate for a situation where the virus is the selected track or (not you) will end up with a pretty deterministic situation.


    Hello,


    Okay, thanks this was valuable info - for trying to configure the setup..

    The bug is there in both modes. It will be adressed in the next update according Marc.


    Yup, this was what was driving me nutz some time back..


    Neither modes (..SEQ or Multi..) transmit Sysex well, and it happens also randomly.. (..one evening you might save and load sounds and all seems to be well, and then all of the sudden the day after you have no sounds in your song..)


    :) But I am hoping that the Pitch drifting will be fixed shortly, so that there would not be the need to resort into using Sysex & StandAlone.


    The way I have understood this (and please do correct me if I am wrong) is that the Analogue outputs latency is totally variable, and will change from project to project depending on the DSP load of the Virus TI - so that there cannot be any "stabile" latency setting that would work for the Analogue outputs (because the latency of them, is variable).


    And that these outputs can be used only for pads etc. that do not require that crucial or "spot on timing"..

    You can get easily around this problem, though it can be very annoying.


    1. Open up Cubase
    2. (do not open any project, but) press F11, and open the Virus TI into the VST instruments slot. (it will open now correctly)
    3. Load a project / begin songmaking.


    This works like 99,99% of the times, so should fix the prob..


    edit: oh, someone had already told the same idea.. cool

    Specs:


    I'd like to pass some information for the Access coders here.


    The problem mentioned earlier, that many customers were able to reproduce was that the Virus TI pitch, is shifting randomly during our songmaking.


    This is driving some people nuts, who have good ear for this kind of thing, and have setups that in which, the Virus TI, will produce audible pitch shifting.


    I got my problem reduced by a mile by changing the PCI slot of my soundcard.


    Why it functions like this, in my music machine I am not sure, since the problem I described in the earlier topic can be reproduced in any computer that the Virus TI is plugged into.


    Depending on the hardware setup, the problem can be fixed by pressing reset ASIO driver, that is an option available in Cubase sequencers.


    After changing the PCI slot (of my soundcard), I checked both my MIDI sync, and the pitch shifting bug of the Virus TI.


    Beucause the MIDI clock timing in all DAW is "taken" by the midi drivers directly from the ASIO clock timing of the machine, both my experiences of Sync issues and pitch shifting, were drastically reduced alongside with the "external machines" MIDI timing problems, which got cured all at the same time.


    Having changed the PCI slot of my M-audio Delta1010LT, I could fix the "pitch shifting" by pressing Reset ASIO 3 times - and this is how I can now get my Virus TI to stay in tune. When earlier, it would not go back in tune, when I would press the reset ASIO button.


    I am personally convinced, that all these 3 problems are somehow tied intogether. The MIDI sync of the machine got better, and so did the Virus TI timing driftings, and also the Pitch shifting got "less workflow preventing".


    This might be because unlike many synths, Virus TI is using 2 different sorts of drivers that are driving its overall sync.


    A programmer friend of mine, who is making games for EA also looked at this issue with me, and we came into a similar conclusion -> there might be some type of sync, that the Virus TI is not picking on from the host software, for some reason, and that same sync, is "re-established" when one presses the reset ASIO button inside Cubase. And because (this is what I am guessing) the Virus TI is using both MIDI and VST protocol simultaneously - all these problems are tied in together.


    And that the reason that lies somewhere in the MIDI sync and its relation to ASIO performance, might explain why I got 3 things functioning better, by simply moving up the soundcard by 1 PCI slot.


    This might be valuable information when fixing this and the sync problems in the Virus TI line, so I am hoping to pass this on so that Dev's can figure out why these 3 things (1.DAW overall MIDI sync output, ie. how precicely are notes sent out, 2. the pitch drifting of the Virus TI and the possibility to cure it by pressing reset ASIO, and 3. the timing drifting of the Virus TI in VST mode) are linked to each other.



    Help for the Developers ->


    How to check your MIDI stability:


    Use TI in Stand Alone mode (this can be also tested with using headphones, and by using the USB midi, since that is also dependent of the ASIO clock):


    -Make a "snareroll" of 64th notes, that is 4 bars long.
    -Use init patch, (turn osc balance so that only 1 oscillator is playing)
    -Turn release and sustain down in the sound and use the Decay button so that you can hear just a little "tip" of the sound
    -Loop the 4bar section, and press play.


    A steady zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz - without _any_ audible change or hiccups is a sign of a rock solid and steady MIDI sync.

    Hello,


    I am still experiencing the pitch shifting I have been mentioning is present as a possible downfall in all TI models.


    The amount of the pitch shifting seems to directly be related with the computers ASIO / MIDI clock balance.


    I got it allmost fixed, but still, this is how either a making of new song, or and yesterdays song begins:


    Open cubase


    - Hassle, to get Virus TI to play sinewave
    - Check if it is in tune


    -> beging son making.


    Also 50% of my songmaking consists of maintaining the Virus TI, so that I have to continuously check if it is holding its tune and pitch.


    I would be very happy to see some progress on behalf of this issue, and would like to ask you Access employees still put alittle effort into figuring out how the user could be assured, that the synthesizer will not at some point of time during songmaking lose its sync.


    I am a person who likes to detune all the instruments in my songs, so that the harmony is at its best, and during the "detuning" of for example percussion sections, it is really important to have the bass sounds (that is usually Virus TI) (and others too) to stay in tune..


    ..I would like to have the possibility to use this synth to its fullest potential..

    from what i was told, the bug was introduced with 4.5.0.01 (which was release less that 6-8 month ago). so there is a good chance that older projects of yours are okay.


    hth, marc


    Hello, the bug has been present ever since I started emailing access about the pitch shifting bug.. (Which is now 2 years ago - yet unfixed and no timeline given on when it would be.) It was something like Os 2.5 when I noticed that neither does the sysex work..

    thanks. can you give me a step by step rundown which includes the exact type of dump you're sending? as for the patch names, you might be right. those are getting initialized in embedded multis once they loose the reference to the original patch. i must admit this is not ideal and i only found out today but it is something intentional and not a type of data corruption or omission from the dump.


    are you using MIDI over USB or a conventional MIDI connection?


    best, marc


    Hello,


    Yes I will do that..


    Actually what HUEY posted above, is just all the steps that I have done.


    (..I am using Virus TI USB Midi for this - but I think I have checked this also on conventional Midi cabling..)


    1. Put Virus TI into Multi mode.
    2. Load different patches into memory, into all parts between 1-6
    3. Check the patches that are on parts 1-4 (..send midi to midi channels 1-4 and quickly go throught them to check the sound..)
    4. Save the Multi into a free slot (..1 - 14..)
    5. Arm a channel in Cubase 5 etc. to receive sysex dump from Virus TI
    6. Send Sysex -> "store multi" -> "Dump Arrangement"
    7. After recording the Sysex, Change your Multi patch into an Initialized Multi
    8. Send your sysex from Cubase to that Initialized channel
    9. Test what is playing on channels 1-4, when you send Midi notes to Virus TI's parts 1-4.
    10.Save your test Multi to a anotherfree slot (..1-14..).
    11.Load the Multi that was saved on step 4, and check if the sounds on both multis are the same..


    Personally I am not dealing much with this Sysex thing anymore, since my timing / driftage problems were almost totally fixed by changing a PCI slot of my soundcard, but I hope this will help to get this fixed so that others can send the Sysex incase there is a need for that..

    do you use virus as sound card?
    is your cubase delay compensation off?
    at least you have to select 256 or 128 sample rate...
    for test your sound latency please disable all other plugins on your mixer channel ,sometime some vst make a delay compensation automatically


    the behavior is documented in the virus ti setup guide and many other places. statically compensating the delay will not work, the delay is not the same all the time. the timing of the notes itself is solid though, as long as you "don't touch" the sequencer and just let it play back, the timing will be offset but the micro timing is fine. one way to compromise the micro timing is to enable live mode.


    marc


    Hello,


    thanks for the ideas, the thing got fixed by changing the PCI slot of my soundcard.

    Are you running it with live mode enabled?


    That will produce such behaviour - live mode is for just that and will give a shortened, but variable delay.


    Live mode switched off will give a longer, but fixed, delay...


    Yeah,


    Nope I did not run my Virus in live mode.


    I actually stumbled upon something that will explain a bit why people are having so drastically different experiences regarding the pitch shifting, and it also solved the timing problems (of the analogue outputs) of the Virus TI.


    I simply changed the PCI slot of my soundcard.


    The drifting of the pitch is also allmost unnoticeable now (..but there is a little allmost unhearable amount of the drifting which yes sounds abit like phase shifting..), but I'll stick with the analogue outputs because they seem to be more reliable.


    So I can see why people had so different opinions, and I must admit that I took it a bit granted that everyone would have just as noticeable drifting, as some people did on their setups.


    What is interesting though, is that the Sysex problem was not fixed, but all other midi related probs are gone with this changing of the PCI slot..


    Thanks for all da help to everyone.

    i've just tried that and here the patches sound the same. in which way does the sound differ for you?


    marc


    It's like there are parameters missing, and a bass sound will get transformed into a distorted lead.


    (..also patch names might be missing..)


    Single patches are transmitted mostly correctly, but when it comes to sending MULTI's or SEQ mode setups, the parts above part 1 are skewed..


    Running a setup with PC.. edit: and on winXP just as HUEY above..

    are you using pc?
    if you are using pc .please consider to download this program and check your system latency


    http://www.thesycon.de/dpclat/dpclat.exe


    Hello,


    thanks for the idea.


    I have compensated the system latency already manually, by shifting midi tracks by some milliseconds (..in cubase, midi channel properties..)..


    ..but the problem with the analogue outs, is that the midinotes timing is variating.. (..and is not stabile..)

    Are you working in a live setup Lightsound?


    If not then surely you can either use PDC or simply record the output from the virus and nudge the audio file into time - In standalone mode it should not be any different to any other hardware for recording (in the days of OS1 thats how i used it!).


    Yeah, the setup is not going to be a live one, for some while..


    Thanks for the idea, but the analogue outs Midi timing is messed in a way where the midi timing has a random shifting..


    ie. a looped segment starts to play perfectly in sync..


    ..and in the end of the loop, all the notes are played out of sync.


    So, I'm dealing with a "variation" in the delay so to speak.


    Access, how about implementing a simple mode that allows us to save and manage our banks and patches via the very nice GUI, but which otherwise allows us to use the TI completely as in stand-alone mode (audio via the audio outputs, midi via the midi ports etc, just as in stand-alone mode).


    Yeah,


    Agreed, great idea..


    Personally I'd see this kind of a thing very welcome.


    Most of us do not even want to use the VC, due to all the timing problems (and random pitch drifting etc.) that really should not be there to hinder ones music making..


    ..and due to the fact, that Virus TI cannot even handle Sysex dumps (..at least yet, this should be fixed Access!..) like the normal synths do, those, like me, willing to use the synth even as in Stand Alone mode, are left with only 14 slots where to store their multi's into.


    Also, the VC's editor is so perfectly designed, meaning that the GUI is absolutely perfect for making music, that it would be nice (..and this should be the case..) that people could use that kind of editor, with a setup that is working fluently - without hiccups that is.


    Now it might not even need to be a formal apology from Access to the users, but simply allowing the use of VC, without any code that has to do with midi timing/notes sent from the sequencer, or audio data transfer via USB, they would make surely many TI owners happy - who have their Viruses allmost dusting, waiting for a fix to renew their setup..


    ..simply, make a fastly edited VC version that is simply a librarian, and does not involve any VSTstuff..


    Edit:


    people could use the Tab+Alt keys to navigate between their program of choice, and the patch editor / VC without VST.


    And all would be happy...


    ..but as said, this would involve an approach from the developer, that had its aim in the overall happiness of their users

    Mods?


    Any visions on how to fix this?


    Since, Sysex dumping does not work in Virus TI correctly, and the midi timing of analogue outs (..that do stay in tune..), is hindered.. ..it is allmost impossible to use the Virus Ti in stand alone mode either.


    The timing of the Analogue outputs, also, when Virus TI is connected via usb, is messed up (..but not, when there is midi sent to them via Virus TI midi out..), so that using the analog outputs as a workaround to the pitch drifting bug is also bottlenecked..


    Would there possibly exist a fix for the timing of the analogue outs?


    Marc and others ( access), I am sorry for the angry tone in my voice, but I am simply not satisfied with a setup that does not either produce harmonies, or is not playing basslines accurately to the beat (or which sounds cannot be saved via a normal Sysex dump).