virus through SPDIF..OTT default stuff..no artifacts \o/
i am so happy i am gonna clap my hands for the rest of the week
You mean the usb audio? (the dsp itself is 24bit..) I would not know, atleast the company which provided the usb audio solution has a few different I/O configurations for a same chip they use. Lets assume the bandwidth is in full use already with the I/Os you have, increasing the bit depth would just mean you would need to drop the amount I/O..a lot..and just for that people can use OTT via usb and crank the gain up? naaaaaaaaah...nobody truly wants that..
Yeah the USB audio and the synth code itself. So the processor is not a bottleneck technically.
And if it's only the code, it would be possible to put a "24bit processing" button to each of the voices. I guess that's about 150% load.
The unison knob has a similar habit
The output config is quite flexible right now so it could be a user choice to sacrifice something for the sake of post process options (per project).
I am not chasing dreams though and I am happy with the synth as it is now.
And - with your help - now I can try to adjust my workflow for these artifacts.
one eye laughs, the other cries
So at least it's not a broken device.
I always considered this piece of gear solid AF. And as an ultimate/optimal VA solution.
..and luckily it's still stands.
I did a quick (but not neccssarily correct) search on the DSP in the TI...do you agree that - in theory - the TI can be upgraded to "work" on 24bits?
Probably with a firmware and/or converter update I guess.
anyway..thanks again for your time and effort!
As far as I can figure it out, its just the insane amount of gain. If you happen to introduce ANY tiny bit of noise etc. you will get really ugly sounding artefacts. So the gain knobs are your friends after all. OTT does not seem to be any ordinary compressor / expander, not sure if it was originally meant as a distortion stomp box
I dunno what to say probably I owe you a beer or two..even if you made that story up..:D
Gonna check it out tomorrow.
It makes sense at first read..gain staging..mhm
I don't use OTT, I am using other distortion fx, mostly izotope trash.
..i'm gonna come back to it tomorrow..
The distorted transient might be caused by the punch knob turned all the way up (or halfway) by default.
All my tests were done using the USB out 1-2
I haven't tested the analog outs and the SPDIF regarding this issue, otherwise they are working and the everything seems to be fine until I start working with the virus's signal.
- it's the virus (design flaw, faulty hardware component, other)
- it's some kind of clocking/sample rate/driver related problem
Windows 10 (saying that I am fully satisfied with it's audio handling would be a lie)
System sample rate: 44.1, project 44.1/24bit
So what's your professional conclusion?
Thanks for still being with me
Sorry, I just felt that this conversation started to go in a wrong direction.
I did the test with the sinewaves. (1 osc, 2 notes, decay at 2 o'clockish.)
Hear it for yourself: OTT first, dry second.
My professional conclusion? I am still not sure.
I am borrowing a snow ..
ah... you're using the Virus Reverb?
Why not switch the Reverb off in the Virus' preset, and extend the release time to a large value to check whether it still produces artifacts?
wow guys,please don't get me wrong but you're both really tough
Oli you were right in your first comment. This issue is related to digital signal behavior and it occurs when serious gain is added to a low level signal from the virus. e.g.: Distortion on tails or modulated volume/filter.
As my recordings demonstrate: a randomly picked combination of plugins aren't producing such artifacts.
Feel free to teach me any new methods you think I already don't know. You'll be my guest for a beer if you succeed
..I am a former audio/music professional currently on 'holiday', so I know what I know and also what I don't (i am not a DSP programmer)
I have a feeling that you assume I want to make the virus seem a bad synth which is totally not the situation here. I am a huge fan of this synth and I am using this exact TI2 for 6 years now and i had two others before. (a snow and a C)
I just want to know if it's the fault of my very piece of synth or is it normal behavior.
I am living with this artifact for years now, only now I decided to come here to ask (assuming this is the best place:D).
So please PLEASE PLEASE, could you or someone else do a little favor to me and for the community and make a test with a simple saw with a long tail\release\volume or filter modulation you decide. The simplest are the reverb or the long amp release.
Insert some heavy limiting after the signal of the TI and see what happens . I recommend OTT, because it's free and produces the artifact (at least for me) with the default preset. I personally don't recommend and using that plugin for anything, but demonstrating with izotope trash (which I use a lot for sound design) would be more difficult as by default that's doing nothing with the signal and it's not free.
and to answer your non-relevant question: i like the reverb on the virus and it wasn't cheap and doesn't eat my CPU
I hope I made everything clear about the purpose of this topic now.:D
..with manly hugs
damn, you're smart..any tips for bypassing the envelope decay and release?
..i did a new take, finally it speaks for itself
so..two synths, set to play single sawtooth..i placed a plate reverb on the vst synth, used the onboard reverb on the virus.
copied the same midi part (1/4 beat C2) to all instances
1 & 2 are the virus without and with the limiting
3 & 4 are the vst synth + reverb channel, same order
I am running cubase 9.5 @ 44.1khz on windows 10.
USB connection is stable.
TI OS 5.1.7
Yeah, but unfortunately those artifacts are present and reproducible and unpleasant.
..shows high similarity with you and your destructive comments.
for anybody in doubt about my sanity (including myself:D) i did another take with the vst.
it's the same patch, same OTT default setting. The note was sustaining all the way until the very distorted part.
I manually tweaked the output gain of the vst synth and at some points I increased/decreased the amount of limiting with the mouse during the recording. At the very end I pasted a normalized version of the "silent" part. Which is the synth turned almost all the way down, OTT bypassed. So there is noise but a very different kind of noise.
I am also doing another take with the virus. Default init patch, OSC balance turned to OSC1 only. So a basic sawtooth. I am literally waiting for the reverb to end...for like 10 minutes now
Is the reverb infinite when the decay is maxed?
Thanks for the reply!
I don't think it's the matter of the patch. More likely, as you also mentioned, it's related to the high added gain to a low incoming (digitally gain controlled) signal. With my very basic knowledge in digital signals I 'know' that volume and bit depth are in a relation.
This is why I recorded the same 'melody' with the default patch of a free vsti with the same plugin and same extreme added gain/compression. (see the 3rd part of the soundcloud link).
I consider them as similar sources (sound generated by program code), so similar behavior expected, but the vst doesn't make those artifacts. (But I'll do another test with longer releases, etc..)
At the moment I suspect it's the TI. I just want to be sure if it's by design or I have some dried out capacitors, faulty converter or anything like that.
No matter what, I am infected with the 'virus virus' for a little bit more than a decade and I am quite happy with that..:D
p.s. As i am writing this something came to my mind. I am using the virus with the VC..wondering if those noises are related to that.
I have a question regarding output noise through USB.
I made a quick recording to demonstrate the issue.
The first one is 3 notes played on a factory preset, the 2nd is the same preset and notes with really heavy limiting (OTT free version default setting but it happens with distortion plugins, etc..so basically with gain).
The 3rd is some free vst playing the same notes and processed with the same limiter/same settings (just to check it's not the fx chain).
The noise issue can be heard in the second take when the sound starts fading out. It sounds like a SNR/conversion problem to me and don't know if it's normal or not.
I live with this for years, only now I had the time/courage/whatever to post about it..
I appreciate any help!