PT8 out of Sync with Virus TI

Same story here...arps are still erratic & jump out of sync.

berni, send some more info, especially on the hardware configuration you're using. if you can, send a demo project to support. we spend a lot of time on protools, it's frustrating that it is still not working for you guys.

marc

Zitat von Marc

berni, send some more info, especially on the hardware configuration you're using. if you can, send a demo project to support. we spend a lot of time on protools, it's frustrating that it is still not working for you guys.

marc

Please spare everyone your bullshit, I for one am tired of it. I reported this problem to Access support 18 months ago & according to the addendums on every software update since then this is the FIRST attempt you have made to address the RTAS problem.
Multi processor problem remains. The arps are all over the place STILL as others have said. Yes it is frustrating!
Not only that my computer now goes into a kernal panic when I have the Virus plugged in for no particular reason.

@ Aether...I guess you are kinda there but I am also guessing English is a second language for you & the typo's dont help. This guy who recently bought a new TI put it best...from the infekted forum...

The first thing I did after unwrapping the Ti2 was download OS4 and
load it up, then after remembering hearing some horror stories I backed
off the beta and installed the last public release version (actually
3.3x.. dont recall version exactly). That experience in itself was
troubling, because of course the back-level version (OS3) was not smart
enough to clean up all pieces of the beta version (OS4). This sort of
installer-snafu is very common in software shops -- beta these days
means "try at your own risk" so some of the testing is short circuited
in favor of getting it in the hands of the risk-taker user base. The
difference these days is that there has been a trend of off-loading the
quality assurance process to the customer under the premise of a "beta"
release. I went to Access's site, and it seems this OS4 "beta" was the
first release I was encouraged to download. Back in the good old days
of higher quality software, beta software used to only go out to
designated customers who were willing to test software in exchange for
something in return; it would have been arrogant to release software
into the mainstream without investing properly in alpha (inhouse)
testing. Today there is a trend of "customer is our test bitch, why
pay?".

For example, back then, if I tested Access' software and provide them
useful feedback, I should then get a free Virus Ti2 in exchange for my
time and experience with the product. If I examined at how many hours I
spent dinking around with this synth to get the beta working right,
then multiplied that number by the hourly rate I charge my clients,
Access owes me a free Virus and about seven grand. So at that point I
cannot justify giving them two grand for the priviledge of being their
beta tester [Blockierte Grafik: http://www.infekted.org/virus/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif]

All of that said, I want to make clear that I loved the sound of the
Virus, and being a fan of subtractive synthesis above any other type
(actual sound design and creation is important to me), I definately
appreciated the knob interface on this desktop module. The polyphony
was a bit weak, I loaded up some sort of D50 Digital Piano sound (I
know, I know.... why the faerk would I want to emulate a 1980s digital
synth with this thing??? Just out of curiosity)... But this sound was
showing as a 5-bar patch! This means with only a slight amount of
handi-work on the keyboard, I was able to rob it of polyphony fairly
quickly. So for purposes of that sound, the Virus felt like a
monophonic D50! This is absolutely laughable compared to what my PC
(currently a Core-i7 965 running Windows 7 64-bit) can do with a
mediocre soft-synth and achieve the same quality sound.

Now when you read the last few sentences there, please don't think that
I am saying a Virus sounds no better than the Roland D50 did. I'm also
not saying that softsynths sound better than the Virus. The Virus, by
itself, sounds better than any softsynth out there. But the advantages
it brought to my particular table did not justify the $2,200 US
pricetag once I factored in the latency issue. And by adding high
quality FX plugins to soft-synths, with certain sounds, I can match or
exceed the virus sound (at the expense of CPU, but my PC's CPU
resources 'runneth over' whereas Virus polyphony does not!... obviously
they see the softsynth movement as a threat or they wouldn't bother
with total integration to begin with, right? Let's face it, softsynths
threaten hardware and the difference diminishes month over month). More
importantly, in a complicated mix I am unlikely to be able to tell the
difference between a virus and a good quality softsynth+fx.

I did realize that for pads and sounds with slow attack, I could
probably find a way to work enough beautiful sounds into my mix that I
could get some use from it even with latency problems, but the latency
issue, lack of quality control in the software, and other issues simply
made the pricetag not worth the returns for me.

One other bit of food for thought -- it seems that despite the "USB
2.0" marketing, the TI (and repackaged same TI2) actually run at the
USB 1.1 max speed. So maybe the next generation of products will have a
data bus that reduces the latency enough to be usable? It's just hard
for me to believe it is purely a host issue -- latency should be a
matter of the driver, the hardware capabilities (USB 2.0 in this case),
and in my research the latency is not DAW specific (if it is, I'd
suggest to the Access QA team that testing and certifcation with more
DAWs translates to more sales). I've seen users complaining across many
hosts, at the end of the day VST is VST, USB is USB, and if they aren't
getting proper coverage on the platform (Windows) that holds more than
90% of marketshare, something might need looking into. Also some might
consider my Windows 7 64-bit setup dicey, but that argument is no
longer acceptable since Windows 7 has been the fastest selling OS in
history, Microsoft is the second most profitable company in America
this year kicking sand in Apple's face, and 64-bit adoption has been
amazing over the last couple of years, even starting with the seemingly
jinxed Vista.

I do hope they find a way to address the problems I had, and be careful
to fund their own testing process rather than using the customer as a
free tester. I will keep an eye on progress and perhaps be a future
customer?

I hope you get it this time...I have not been talking about latency all along. If you understand my previous posts you would have realised this & if you are using VC on a HD system then just like access you are not only missing my point but also the problems I am having with the LE version of VC in PT LE.
Now either I'm a complete idiot or the rest of you are....

I told myself I wouldn't bother posting or trying to get this issue resolved but ultimately I chose to spend $3,000 on the virus for its sound and for the total integration part. I had visions of never worrying about my patches in a project, about some cool automation, and organizing an extensive patch library. Then reality kicked me in the shin.

As it stands now I really can only reliably use my virus as a really awesome keyboard. While I do feel the virus is worthy of being just a $3,000 synth, it eats at me that I can't really use the "TI" part.

And regardless of if it is intentional or not, the brick wall I get from Access when I try to resolve the problem has beaten me into submission and I just use it as a stand alone keyboard. At least USB midi works and when you don't instantiate the plug-in you don't have to use midi cables which would just sting

Aside from Access getting a copy of Pro Tools 8 LE in house to test the plug-in, I think one feature that would be very helpful with this problem:

** An option to use external outputs and internal virus clock for audio even when using the TI plug-in.

So I don't get USB audio and sample accurate automation. Being able to actually use the plug-in would be worth it for me. Midi clock is plenty accurate for the arp and internal audio clock is fine because I'm recording it like I'd record a guitar track so sample accurate audio is overkill. All other automation should be available, just not sample accurate.

Maybe I'm an odd case but this is my 2 cents on a possible "quick fix" that would at least let me use the plug-in for something other than a glorified patch editor.

I have used a lot of plug-ins and have been using Pro Tools LE for a long time now. And while LE does have it's little quirks and issues, I've never had this much trouble with anything in my studio before.

I promise, I [most likely] will never post again

Zitat von Aether

latency is not DAW specific but every hardware generate some delay, known as H/W buffer size.
Access is trying to implement the virus (VC+hardware) thru the RTAS engine which is not possible to sync with ProTools LE.

PT HD is different by syncing to RTAS engine, because there is a seperate bus to compensate latency under 4095 samples with a delay in each channel.
You can do this by your own and put a short, medium or long latency plugin in your inserts. This will compensate the delay of all your tracks to the virus latency.
But still... this will not change the clock code of your virus in LE - and this is strange. This is the point where problems and endless questions starts.

Maybe Avid devloped the RTAS engine like that to prevent connections of other audio interfaces.
My theory is that just this one bus is able to sync accurate with virus instead. (PT HD only)
I'm not a RTAS coder, so you have to ask the guys from Access and Avid.

I hope you get it this time.

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one of the core differences of protools HD and LE is that HD features auto latency compensation whereas LE doesn't. with HD protools takes care of the delay, with LE, the user has to by inserting delay compensation plug-ins. sparing a discussion why this all is and if it is a modern approach, this is what avid presents us with an nothing that can be changed from anybody but avid. but is this really what we're talking about here? the fact that LE does not feature delay compensation is well documented and for sure cannot be the problem you guys facing?
Aether: in protools HD, the delays are managed by inserting "invisible" delay plug-ins. those plug-ins only run in the DSP world, therefore they are not available to LE customers. the plug-ins report their latency to the host, the host has to deal with the latency, the plug-in cannot do that. the reason why you don't face the same problem with most other plug-ins is that they don't report latency (or a significant latency) to the host in the first place.
hth, marc

Zitat von Hales

Aside from Access getting a copy of Pro Tools 8 LE in house to test the plug-in, I think one feature that would be very helpful with this problem:

we have copies of protools LE and HD. we don't see the difference, the obvious differences in the feature set designed by avid aside. as read my other post re. automatic delay compensation. is there anything obvious i'm missing here?
best, marc

Zitat von Marc

we have copies of protools LE and HD. we don't see the difference, the obvious differences in the feature set designed by avid aside. as read my other post re. automatic delay compensation. is there anything obvious i'm missing here?
best, marc

My problem has nothing to do with delay compensation but as it is "obviously" the case the user is always wrong.

Zitat von Hales

My problem has nothing to do with delay compensation but as it is "obviously" the case the user is always wrong.

i don't think the users is aways wrong. in fact, i think quiet the opposite. maybe you can open you own thread for the problem you have, that lowers the chance that you get an wrong answer from me - in other words, my answer might be valuable to this thread but not to your problem, the info aside that we do have PT LE and we don't brick wall when it comes to problems.

marc

Zitat von donnydonny

Marc,

Can you please comment on my post?

PT8 out of Sync with Virus TI

can you send please send the project into support so QA can have a look?
thanks, marc

Zitat von donnydonny

Marc,

I sent in a support ticket on May 31 and haven't heard anything back regarding this. I did include a test session as you suggested.

could you post the support ID / ticket number?

thanks, marc