Posts by UltimateOutsider

    I confirmed it with a test. The problematic patch is on part 11. If I mute part 11 and move the patch to part 14 the note won't play at all (out of DSP- and I confirmed my MIDI and output settings were correct, too... you can hear the patch if you play it by itself). If I mute part 14 and un-mute part 11, I can hear the note again- but of course still with the pop.

    So, I learned something about the Virus, but it didn't help me with this issue. :)

    However, I just went through all the patches currently loaded and set any instruments that were only playing one note at a time in the song to "Mono 1", and this appears to have given me enough juice to avoid that pop.

    I am still frequently hearing an unwanted click later on (around when this FX patch stops playing), but haven't diagnosed it yet. It is quiet enough that it might be acceptable for my purposes, though.

    I am trying to troubleshoot a multi-timbral song I've composed for the Virus TI Desktop. The Virus appears to be running out of DSP power at one point in the song. At first, a particular FX sound would only play about 50% of the time. By removing some notes/parts around the time that sound is triggered, I can at least make it trigger 100% of the time- but there is often a loud pop now right before you hear the sound, which is not part of the patch itself. This only occurs about 50% of the time- so the note always plays now, but half the time it's accompanied by a loud pop.

    The Virus is not clipping (max volume's just a little higher than -6db for the mixed output), so I'm almost certain this is a DSP/polyphony issue. (Also, while I do have the Virus Control plugin loaded, all audio is going out Analog Out 1+2, not the USB audio. My audio interface is a RME Fireface UFX at 44.1kHz, 24-bit, 256 samples, and I do not experience performance-related pops of this nature with any other instrument.)

    Anyway, in this thread, I noticed this passage:


    there are 2 chips in the Ti and they each get one synth part; 1st chip gets part 1. 2nd gets part 2, then the 1st gets part 3, and 2nd chip gets part 4....etc. What does this mean? Simple: If you use a thick unison lead and pads on channels 1, 3 and 5 you might run out of voices, even though the 2nd chip still has DSP power to spare.

    So, my question: What exactly is this saying? Does the virus assign even-numbered multi parts to one chip, and odd-numbered parts to the other? If so, wouldn't that mean the virus never used all its DSP power if you were using it mono-timbrally (only one multi part)?

    I ask, because I wonder if I can minimize the DSP load during my song by shuffling the parts around. I don't want to bother with this if the Virus actually distributes the DSP load differently.

    Thanks FB. My patch was using two octaves as well, but the OSC mix was different.

    Last night I tried changing the lower OSC to a pulse and modulating the PW, which had a nice result.

    But I also found that changing the lower OSC to a hypersaw instead and cranking up the detune really did the trick.

    The ANA patch, it turns out, was playng a short (under 2-second) looped sample rather than a typical Virus-type waveform, which lent to its more active character.

    With the Virus more than any other synth, I have trouble getting my patches to sound exactly like they sound in my head.

    But I’m trying to become more adept with the Virus and I’m really stumped trying to get a synth string patch that I’m happy with. I’ve managed to get strings done in other synths that had a certain amount of brilliance and life in them that I just can’t seem to coax out of the Virus. I’m pretty sure it’s my fault, but I’m kind of running into a brick wall at the moment.

    I just posted a video that demonstrates the kind of sound I’m looking for; it’s a patch from the Sonic Academy ANA synth that kind of glistens without sounding plastic. It’s somewhere between a real and synthetic. The patch is called “Real Strings” and it’s kind of weird; it’s only made up from two oscillators playing sampled waveforms. One’s a real quiet, quick attack (which I can’t even hear most of the time) and the other is the chromatic string component. The patch has no filtering or modulation other than a little bit of pitch LFO, so it hasn’t given me much to go on in terms of designing my own sound.


    In the video I also show my current Virus synth string patch, which really lacks the high end action of the ANA patch, even though it has the same general EQ signature. I don’t know what I can do to make the higher frequencies of my sound more interesting. I step through all the relevant Virus Control tabs in the video to show my parameters.

    The video ends with both my Virus patch and the ANA patch playing together, panned to opposite sides.

    Anyway- any tips on how I can bring my own Virus patch more in line with something like that ANA sound?

    This is so agravating when people attempt to give instructions off the top of their head and without tryin g to follow their own instructions to verifi their meaning.


    You know, I think you just fed us a lot bull for fun to see how much of peoples time you could waist. So, ha ha ha, you won. But don't worry, the Access manual has got you beat by far in waisting my time. HaHa Ha!

    Please forgive the author of that two-year-old post you quoted for not being familiar with your personal setup and experience level.

    Many (probably most) people who offer assistance here are doing so while away from their gear, in their spare time. Also. not every person giving advice has time to write a complete step-by-step tutorial- and not every person requesting advice needs one.

    It's weird how hostile you are towards a stranger from the past who was trying to help a totally different user who may not have needed all the details you currently demand. If you need more information, just ask. You don't need to go around attacking the people you're soliciting for help.

    Latency is most annoying when you're tracking live material (playing lines on the keyboard vs. mousing the notes in or using pre-recorded loops, etc).

    I have the TI2 Desktop, and when the Virus is acting as an interface I personally find it unplayable when attempting to track parts from my AKAI MIDI controller.

    Not having a keyboard version of the Virus, I don't know if the performance issues carry to those models.

    Interface latency introduces problems in other situations, too, depending on whether you mix plugins and external instruments, use automation, use plugins that introduce their own latency, and which DAW you're using.

    The Virus's interface feature is something I'd only use in a pinch.

    The biggest problem with the Virus as an audio interface is latency.

    The following numbers were all recorded on my DAW system at 256 samples, 32 bits, 44.1kHz:

    - The audio interface I use, a MOTU PCIe-424 with 24I/O expansion, gets around 13ms round-trip latency, which is pretty good.

    - The Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 gets around 18ms round-trip, which is just fine for a USB 2.0 interface.

    - The MOTU UltraLite-mk3 (FireWire-only model) delivers around 19ms, which is near the low end for a FireWire interface, but still usable.

    - The Virus TI2, on the other hand, comes in at around 37ms, due to its crazy-high output latency. I find it virtually unusable for tracking, for this reason alone. Just try playing a fast bass line on it in time to the click track.

    Then as fb noted, there's no pres. There are also only 2 analog ins, no digital ins... and I think it limits the functionality of the Virus when it's enabled, doesn't it? Don't you have to sacrifice some I/O or something to use it?

    Unless you notice significant latency when playing normal, non-arp patches, I really doubt interface latency is your problem.

    Live is somewhat notorious for a varietyy of timing issues with the Virus (Access even blames Ableton for some such problems in the OS 5 release notes). I completely stopped using Live, and one of the big reasons was how poor the timing was on my Virus. I'm back on Cubase now, with no problems.

    All this said, have you confirmed that the arp patches you're using are DAW-synced rather than using internal timing (as the latter might account for gradually going off-time)?

    I bought the rack ears kit the same day I bought my TI2 Desktop, but just last night took it out of the rack and made it a desktop unit again- so it's fresh in my memory. The whole process takes 5-10 minutes and the great majority of that time is screwing/unscrewing. You'll find that the innards of the Desktop are extremely tidy; the jacks you have to rotate are all on the same board, and a single ribbon cable connects them to the mainboard. Just fully disconnect the unit and guard yourself from static hazards before operating and you should be okay.

    For what it's worth, due to the configuration of my room, the Desktop was out of physical reach from my DAW, and every single patch I made on my Virus was in Virus Control. Almost every one of the physical knobs on my Desktop is in the same position it was when I took it out of its box. I wanted to get more hands-on with the thing, so I reconfigured my setup to make room for it on a shelf surface next to a keyboard controller.

    EDIT: And yes, it ends up taking up 5 rack units due to the weird way it fits into the rack. It uses the bottom row of screws from the top slot and the top row of screws from the bottom slot, leaving space above and below the device. I never liked that.

    I really wish the Access site would clarify this, because it comes up frequently (and I've even had the question myself, a couple times).

    The 64-bit installer will cover all your needs for 64-bit Windows, and in fact the 32-bit installer won't even run on 64-bit Windows (it will warn you that it's 32-bit only).

    But the downloads page could be a lot more clear on this point, if only because for most other DAW-related software and plugins you DO have to install both 32-bit and 64-bit versions on 64-bit OSes.

    And regarding USB ports, try any non USB-3.0 ports first. That'll be your best bet for a first try.

    On my setup, the Init patch, played at 127 velocity (this might not matter, as the Init patch has a Velocity->VCA ENV of 0) with the physical volume knob turned all the way up peaks at -27.9dB in my DAW's input channel, and -39.9dB with the volume knob turned to the middle. This is with my interface configured to have the Virus audio outs coming in at +4dBu, which is my normal configuration.

    If I set the Virus ports on my interface to -10dbV, the Virus channel in my DAW peaks at -26.7dB with volume half way, and at -14.8dB with the knob all the way up. This is close to your values of -28 and -16, respectively... and it's actually too loud! The Init patch itself is not very loud or dynamic or bassy, and you usually do a lot more with your Virus than play a single note. You need a lot of headroom for this thing.

    All current-model Virus models (except the Snow) have balanced outputs that are rated at +4dBu anyway.

    Anyway, don't worry. Your Virus is working just fine.

    I have the TI2 desktop and in my own experience the analog outputs are pretty hot; noticeably louder than my other instruments. They're balanced outputs, if I recall right, and I'm using TRS cables to connect them to my interface, which has balanced ins. I actually had to change the line level settings of my audio interface to prevent input clipping on the Virus ports it was so loud.

    I don't have db measurements of my init patch, but for what it's worth I always have the volume knob pegged on all my external instruments.

    Windows 8 is not a bad OS but I sure hate that Metro and no more start menu :thumbdown:

    There's a great free Start menu replacement for Windows 8 (that also optionally bypasses the Win 8 start screen), called Classic Shell. Makes Win 8 much less painful.

    I'm a Windows developer who's found it increasingly difficult to write software that both supports the newer Windows versions AND still runs well under XP, with its now antiquated APIs. The changes in the Windows 8 WDK make it even more of a challenge, and I definitely sympathize with Access on this one.

    Your wish to actually output 16 independent parts is a very common request. Unfortunately, even if it were possible, the Virus's polyphony is too limited for that to be of much use. I'm currently working on a 12-part project, and I started running out of notes on the 8th part.

    Anyway, it is at least possible to use Virus Control's routing options to send 12 separate parts (using both USB and analog outs), but I have not figured out a way to handle the USB stereo pairs as separately-processable channels in Ableton Live. I got it working pretty well in Cubase with a bit of routing magic. Honestly I've completely stopped using my Virus in Live because it's such a dog there timing-wise. Timing's much tighter in Cubase.

    (As far as the analog outputs go, Live is actually a little more flexible than Cubase... the USB stuff's the problem. At least it stumped me.)

    With 3 USB stereo pairs and 3 analog stereo pairs, and the Virus' ability to assign a part to the L or R channel of any pair, you can get 12 individually mixable mono parts out of the Virus.

    theRoyal1 is correct, however, that polyphony is the biggest limitation.

    I am currently working on a 12-part Virus project that demonstrates how to make this work, and I'm only up to 8 parts so far and am already having to jump through hoops to avoid dropped notes due to insufficient voices. This is on a TI2 Desktop. (A Snow would have only been able to carry my percussion, making its lack of multiple analog outs moot.)

    EDIT: All that said, I wouldn't complain if they added some more analog outputs- so long as they double the DSP power while they're at it!

    Oops, yeah, I thought you were talking about interfaces...

    Anyway, my own experience with the Virus Control plugin is that there is terrible latency with it on Ableton Live in the default mode, less (but still noticeable) latency when you put the plugin in Live mode, but in Cubase I don't detect any noticeable latency at all. The plugin's perfectly usable in that environment (at least on my setup).

    Live is slightly notorious for having issues with external instruments anyway, but I have numerous external instruments and none of them perform as poorly with Live as my Virus does.

    The best USB audio interface is probably the RME Fireface UFX, but at $2300 USD one might question whether the best is worth it.

    I've used the Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 ($230 USD) with great success (note that you need to use USB 2.0 ports, not USB 3.0 if your computer is new). The MOTU UltraLite-mk3 hybrid ($550 USD) is also a solid choice. Both offer significantly lower latency than the Virus's own audio interface feature.

    Avoid M-audio. I don't have experience with other brands/models. See this thread for further recent discussion.

    I really do appreciate it. I'm excited to be able to get 18ms total response from the K6 with 256 samples and being able to use all of my USB ins and outs with the virus, neato.

    Just out of curiosity, I take it when you use USB-in for the Atomizer that the sound will have to go to Main (1/2) out which will then mean that you can only really route MIDI channels 2 and 3 to OUT 2 and 3 respectively.

    I ask this because currently I route 3 Virus channels to individual Audio outs and then bring those audio outs into Ableton Live so that I can use external effects on individual Virus channels.

    Well remember- the PC plays a huge part in audio interface performance; your final numbers might be different from mine, and could be either better or worse depending on your specs. My DAW system's nearly 3 years old (here are the specs). All that said, the KA6 is a fine interface, especially for the price.

    Regarding your other question, I'm not really sure what you're asking. (You're saying "MIDI channels" but I don't see how that relates to the audio routing?) Regarding audio output, I typically use the virus's analog audio outs, not the USB audio channels- and I haven't messed with the atomizer yet.