Posts by Outsight

    No worries. I Hope it is close to what you were looking for.

    I've had a bit more time to play with the sound. It's really all about the PWM, detune and pitch modulation. A fun thing for TI owners to play around with is using PWM wavetables on OSC 2 instead of just a straight square with PWM. You can keep the original character of the sound, but inject a bit of a more digital feel into the highs or lows depending on where you set your WT index.

    Also I rather overdid it with filter saturation on that example. You may want to dial the saturation back. That makes the sound a bit week with filter 1 closed though, so you may just want to sack off analogue mode entirely and run with the normal filter mode,

    I've encountered similar things. A project I was recently working on held notes for no reason. I've not managed to fix it, and it's not in the sequence. Again though it's rare enough that using VC still saves me time. As for timing...I'm not much of a keyboardist so I don't really record live played input. I just sequence. I think that's the intended use of live mode. I had a play with my TI keyboard and using it for input it was OK triggerig the TI and other synths. To be honest my other input devices are much worse. My PadKontrol is terrible, which for drum input, is pretty bad. The only cure for this I've found is tightening the buffer size.

    I made this on my TI. Not my style of production so apologies if it's somewhat lacking in that regard. The sound should be in the region of what's being discussed though.

    Click for MP3

    Settings are as follows. If I don't mention a parameter it is no different than the TI's default init. I would upload the patch but the forum doesn't seem to allow attachments.

    OSC Section

    OSC 1 and 2 Classic > Square
    OSC 2 > Detune > 80
    OSC 3 > Pulse
    OSC 3 > Detune > -40
    OSC 3 > Semitone > +12
    OSC 3 > volume > 45
    Sub OSC > Volume > 33
    Unison > 6
    Unison > Detune > 94
    Unison > Pan Sprd > 80%
    Unison > LFO Phs > +36
    Punch > 100%

    Filter Section

    Cutoff Link and Filter Link > OFF
    Analogue Mode > ON
    Filter 1 > LP 1
    Filter 1 > Cutoff > 3
    Filter 1 > Env Amt > 37%
    Filter 1 > Reso > 18
    Filter 2 > HP
    Filter 2 > Cutoff > 44
    Filter 2 > Reso > 37
    Filter Balance > -25

    LFO Section

    All LFOs > Triangle
    LFO 1 > Rate > 98
    Unlink LFO 1 > OSC 1 OSc 2
    LFO 1 > Osc 1 > +15%
    LFO 1 > OSC 2 > +30%
    LFO 3 > Rate > 100
    LFO 3 > Assign > OSC 1+2 Pulse Width > 57%

    FX 1 Section

    Characters > Analogue Boost > Intensity > 64%
    Characters > Analogue Boost > Tune > 11
    Distortion > Light > Mix > 38%
    Distortion > Light > Drive > 21%
    Chorus > Classic > Mix > 45
    Chorus > Classic > FB > 62%
    Chorus > Classic > Rate > 23
    Chorus > Classic > Depth > 41%
    EQ > Low > -11db
    EQ > Mid > +8bdb
    EQ > Hi > +8db

    FX 2 Section

    Delay > Classic > Send > -13db
    Delay > Classic > Ping Pong > 2:1
    Delay > Classic > Clock > 1/3
    Delay > Classic > Feedback > 46%
    Reverb > Large Room > Send > -8db
    Reverb > Large Room > Decay > 96
    Reverb > Large Room > Damping > 19%
    Reverb > Large Room > Colour > -27
    Reverb > Large Room > Time > 136
    Reverb > Large Room > Clock > 3/16

    Hope this is some help.

    Here's an old Virus C tutorial that gives a good basis for making similar leads. Very clear to follow. Might be of interest for anyone looking to recreate these. This certainly works on the TI.

    Very similar to a lot of the examples. I'd be very surprised if the TI couldn't do these though. Those are some of the main kinds of sounds a lot of people seem to buy any Virus for...I've certainly managed to get these kind of sounds out of my TI in the past and with the hypersaw it's easier if anything to make these big detuned leads and plucks.

    That is indeed great news. Working with the VC is so much clearer than programming on the hardware, Instant access to all parameters with no menu diving speeds things up a lot, and encourages you to use the features that are a bit buried way more.

    The arp is something I didn't comment on. I tend to sequence all my arpeggios anyway, though I do use arp to matrix a lot for stuff like WTindex or formant spread. I use the comb filter trick that Ben Crosland went over in the tutorial video when it was introduced. I'd love for the comb filter to accept note data really. There have been loads of times when I've just wanted it to play a little pitched comb filter sequence over a patch. There aren't any comb filters out there that allow you to do this as far as I know. I should really try working out how to keytrack it and maybe use the virus effects AS EFFECTS for the first time. Still I should probably stop being lazy and just knock something up in Reaktor.

    Anyway the arp is subject to the same issues as all my other clocked elements. Occasionally lazy, sometimes goes nuts. Not enough to cost me time given how much time using VC saves programming, tweaking and sculpting.

    USB bandwidth has never been an issue for me. I do keep one USB controller free just for the Virus though, and I don't run a lot of USB devices anyway. USB support has constantly puzzled me with the Virus.

    User: Why is it USB 1??!? That's nuts!
    Access: To ensure compatibility
    User: USB is backwards compatible, surely it could just use the available bandwidth on USB 1 and 2
    Access: Shhhh
    User: It's not working great either
    Access: Buy a dedicated USB card...everyone should really
    User: FFFXGKKGKTTT!!! So you make it USB 1 for 'compatability'....then tell everyone to buy a dedicated card anyway?
    Access: Correct...if you don't like it, go and buy your boutique digital synths from...oh...oh..are we the only show in town? Deary me! yeah. That never made any sense. Anyway it sounds like you have the makings of a nice and flexible VC setup. I occasionally find myself wishing I had more outs, and with both USB and hardware you do. Use your USB for the sounds that suit that best and hardware for the same. It's making me consider that I should hook up my audio outs for pads or sounds with verb or delay. More outs is more outs...and all better USB support would give me is more outs.

    I think you've solved my multiple midi track issue there. I don't use velocity for modulation ever really, and the range trick picks up any 'spares'. My main issue in working the way I do is keeping track of the various sequences and being able to quickly edit which patch is supposed to be darting in for incidental sounds etc. This way I can contain it all in one midi track and just collapse the tracks used for routing and ignore them. I really think you've cracked it there. THANKS!

    No worries...I could talk about this stuff all day.

    Yeah I read somewhere that Abe doesn't do channel per note event. I hoped otherwise. I miss tracking really, it's a such a quick way to lay down sequence and gives you lots of control, though it's not for everyone and the barrier to entry is quite high.

    The only issues I get with the TI when running VC are clock sync and note timing. The note timing is most often on starting playback, usually only from the beginning of a track. Putting an early trigger at the start usually fixes this...gets it out of the TIs system before it can do any damage. Really though I let it slide while I'm working...only spoils the occasional bounce and I can do those again when it *needs* to be right.

    As for the clock; I can observe the LED looking a bit lazy or fast sometimes, butt accounting for latency, buffers etc. it's slight enough to not be sure. Rarely manifests itself in playback. the most likely clock issues I encounter are when it just goes nuts and loses the plot entirely. These are occasional, and a stop and restart of the sequence usually rights it first time. Either that or I let it run a bit and it finds its feet again. It's usually still synced to a degree in that it goes double or half time. I use LFOs as envelopes or for filter mod quite a bit for gap filling wub one offs so it would be really noticeable if it were a persistent problem. Delays are the same. I used to also get pitching artefacts in the delay when the clock drifted, but I've not seen those in a while. Though I've not been using delay a lot recently.

    I'll answer the more nuts and bolts stuff that might help other people trouble shoot here.

    I only use VC so the TI clock is automatically slaved to the DAW. MIDI sync for TI MIDI and Synth both off. As I said this can go nuts sometimes, but the problem never persists. I use clocked aspects a lot so I really could work if this wasn't reliable for me. I don't use any plugin delay compensation. Like I mentioned earlier I switch buffer for the benefit of other gear, but the TI is happy at 128. I really just installed Ableton and it just worked. If there are any other settings I should check let me know.

    One thing though....The OS5 driver really improved things a lot for me. In the past when I had issues I found that previously installed versions of the driver would cause strange conflicts....back when the TI used to be fussy about using the same USB port (...why?....). My TI is no longer fussy about USB ports after OS5 which I assumes was a feature of OS5. I it's not that may be significant, but I don't remember it flashing up the warning about USB ports on installation. I did do a fresh operating system install when OS5 came out so cleaning old drivers out might be a good place to look.

    I've posted the more general TI and Live discussion here...…page=Thread&threadID=5223

    I got a request from thetechnobear in another thread to go into some detail about how I set up Live with my TI with the VC plugin, and working with the TI generally. I don't expect this will solve some of the more serious issues people have with getting VC to play nice, but hopefully it'll help someone. There may be some better ways to achieve what I'm doing as I'm no Live expert, I only switched to it a year ago. So if you have a better workflow I'd love to hear about it. I've been using the TI since 2008 though,,,,and I'm still not done learning everything the engine has to offer. DEEP!

    If you want to ask questions about my setup with regards to getting VC to work, I already posted up everything I could think of over at this thread. Feel free to ask questions there.…ad&threadID=5072&pageNo=2

    I'll get on answering thetechnobear's questions...

    "- your workflow, whats your template look like, do you record midi, then bounce etc."

    My template that I fire up every new project looks like this. Pretty simple. I have the TI plugin instance at the top turned off. Three audio tracks monitoring in.

    1/ From > Virus TI > Post FX
    2/ From > Virus TI > 2-Virus Ti
    3/ From > Virus TI > 3-Virus TI

    I sacrifice the input as I don't use the Virus Vocoder (I use Razor...really clear vocoder) nor do I use it for FX.

    I use each track for logical groupings of sounds. Bass in one, leads in another, pads...whatever the tune requires. I then create MIDI tracks for each sounds routed to the relevant channel on the TI. The sound on the TI is then routed to USB 1,2 or 3 depending on it's grouping. I avoid bouncing for as long as possible and I tend to effect groups as a gorup (except detail work....eq etc.). When I do need to bounce something, usually because the Virus has run out of DSP I just solo whichever sound I don't need to tweak and record it into the track. Copy that into a new track and mute its MIDI channel. The patch and routing are all still there to be un-muted and recorded if you need to tweak. I mix the levels of these sounds in the VC plugin until I'm ready to bounce all of them. Then everything gets its own track and I can do eq detail etc.

    "- more on how you 'group sounds'"

    Half explained above. Back when I was using Renoise I got used to how it separated instruments from tracks. Any instrument could play in any track as each note event has to designate which instrument it's using. This was useful for using lots of sounds like one instrument. If I had a bass sequence that used a bunch of different patches (wubs or reese etc.) it could all just live in one sequence in one track. I'd route the relevant USB out for that group to that track and treat multiple patches as a single patch effectively. I could do lazy things like rack up subtle variants of the same wub patch as separate patches and vary the LFO rate and unison pan etc. per patch, but use them like one instrument.

    I lost a lot of that functionality moving over to's way easier to just automate those parameters in this environment than manage 3-4 midi tracks of virtually identical patches. However grouping sounds and just using multiple synth instances stuck. If I want to do a heavily modulated bass I just mix up my TI bass group with things like Massive or Razor in an Ableton track group and treat them like 1 patch....lots of eq and filter sculpting...which the new TI filter banks are great for.

    Everything else is explained above really. If anyone knows if I can route notes on a single midi track to different/multiple midi channels it would help me out a lot. Almost like having Renoise back...almost.

    Most of the other questions have been answered in that little I'll skip a few.

    "- do you use clocked aspects e.g. clocked LFOs, delays
    - do you bother with virus on-board effects (I'm pushing them to ableton/vsts)"

    Yes and yes. One of the reasons I don;t like to bounce or work with samples is my love for using modulation to change the texture of a sound. LFOs that sync to funny measures or freewheel. I tend to get the modulation options on any synth to do half of the work before I approach manual automation. I use the onboard effects a lot. Analogue boost and the speaker cab get a lot of punishment. Great distortion models. Great as filter saturation....rate and follow is really useful. They are all really good effects and they are RIGHT THERE. I rarely need to use VSTs or Live native effects on virus patches as, since the addition of the additional filter banks, pretty much everything I need available on the TI. I really can't say the same for any other synth I use (currently mostly Massive, Reaktor, Razor). The exception being some EQ and compression.

    Finally on working within the TI limitations....well there's how I approach patch grouping and bouncing. Not an incredible innovation, but saves me time. Also as I said in the other thread, yes the Virus is famous for its history as an analogue (though admittedly I was a Novation Nova guy back then) that's a very crowded space. The wavetables are great. PWM wavetables are a downright TRIUMPH. The formant oscs open up a whole range of textures that really compete with a lot of the modern digital VSTs. Whenever I go hunting for patch advice I see a lot of posts saying the same thing...

    'The Virus can't do those kind of sounds...'

    I think. Are we talking about the same Virus? The TI? Do you even own a TI? Have you ever upgraded the OS?!? It's a beast! where else can I casually rack up 9 sawtooth waves on one knob and sync that to another complex wave like the wavetable or formants...or frequency modulation between two different flavours of complex wave? Hell even if you are some kind of weird epic trance monk who has taken a vow to only ever use sawtooths...9 on 1...9 on sub...oh an 8 voice unison. THAT'S TOO MANY SAWS!

    So yeah. Those patches tend to eat up the processor, but it really grabs the uniqueness of the virus. You don't get many sounds anyway on a TI1 before it runs out of puff, so might as well use the stuff that any old analogue modelercan't do. I usually get 3-4 sounds with my programming habits, which fits in just fine with the way I route and use sounds mentioned above. Plus, like I said, it encourages me to write specific little stabs, wubs etc. that everything keeps out of the way for. No more than 3-4 complex sounds at once and you can get away with having loads of different patches, or subtle variants like I mentioned earlier, darting in and out without any dropouts. I also got out the habit of using too much unison. I found that on most of my patches you stop hearing any difference over 5. 8 voice unison patches with lots of detune etc. tend to want to dominate a mix anyway.

    Of course, as I mentioned on the other thread, you can max out a TI1 with just 1 patch if you use 2 formant complex oscs and unison. To be fair though if you do that and the patch doesn't sound like arse it's a bloody achievement! Be proud!

    Phew. Long post. I hope that answers your questions. I also hope people find it useful or at least interesting. Here's hoping it sparks some woefully absent positive debate about the TI.

    I thought I'd share my experiences as I have a functional VC setup. I had issues in the past, but only encounter occasional glitches now. Some late or early triggers on starting playback or the tempo going batshit briefly when jumping around, or rapidly stopping or restarting playback.

    For those interested in hardware I have a Windows 7 64 bit based setup running on an Asus Rampage II Extreme mobo, 6 gig triple channel DDR3 (I forget the frequency and make), i7 920 and a Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 firewire external soundcard. Though I've had no issues on other machines also (Macs etc.)...though some setup gripes with pre-OS5 drivers.

    The Virus is connected to the onboard USB controller via a stupidly long 2.5 metre USB cable. Yeah....I know....I have no idea how either.

    I used to have issues with my TI in Renoise (an unsupported DAW) which were solved about 2-3 years ago with updates to the DAW from the Renoise team. I could realtime render tracks with no issues. I did experience some of the issues I listed at the start of the post. Also some pitching artefacts in delays, as well as delays losing the clock. Most issues that persisted after restarting the playback were fixed by saving without reloading. I habitually hammer Ctrl-S in EVERYTHING as a result.

    I moved over to Ableton about a year back. The Virus performs fine. Subject to the occasional glitches listed at the top. I get some crackles at 64 or 32 buffer size. Currently at 128 with no issues. I only reduce the buffer for using my padKontrol which is horribly latent at big buffer sizes.

    How? I have no idea sadly. Some DAW upgrades and OS4/5 really tightened everything up for me. I used to have similar problems to everyone else, but they really haven't been an issue for a while now.

    I use the TI a lot so I have a pretty strict workflow for it. As virtual analogues are now 10 a penny I tend not to waste TI processing power on conventional oscillators. Occasional hypersaws (again other synths do this now) formant and wavetable/wavetable PWM. Mixtures of those OSC types are the stuff that only my TI can do, so I save it for them.

    I don't like bouncing if I can avoid it so I usually limit my patch count to three or four. I also group sounds that can be bundled together to each of the three USB outs. Where I use more sounds they are usually basses that don't play together (avoiding dropouts), but are sent to the same out for common compression etc. I only bounce when I have to, when sound design and tweaking/automation are done so I can get control of the mix back a bit.

    I'm really mindful of how expensive sounds are for the TI. Unison is a killer, as are both Formant modes. Where I get drop outs I just commit to a bounce and move on. Mute the midi track and flip it back on if I need to edit the bounced part. Really getting a feel for how much the TI can handle (I have a model 1) has helped...2 formant oscs with 8 voice unison can max it out in a single patch.

    Much of that probably isn't helpful as most of you are probably struggling to get the triggering and clock on time. I've not tried multiple TIs to see if there is any difference, but my mainboard did die in my TI a little while back requiring a replacement I guess I've tried 1.5 TIs.

    I really feel for those of you having problems. Having poor performance using VC in Renoise was a nightmare. VC is a really clear and usable programming environment and the TI engine has bags of power and depth. I've been a TI user since 2008....couldn't imagine working without it.

    If anyone wants more specifics on my setup/settings ask and I'll post up what I can.

    I'm certain that's a simple edit of a patch called 'Elephant' on Impulse Factory's 'Virus Infection' bank. I just recreated your example pretty much exactly using that patch as a launchpad (just switched it to mono 3 and brought some of the pitch modulation under firmer control). Worth picking up for the price if you are into these kind of screaming lead sounds. Lots of very hard dissonant patches....plenty of neat tricks to learn from in there.

    No noise mod involved. Two synced hypersaws with lots of pitch modulation/sweeping (LFO and envelope), heavy detuning and hard distortion up to 11. Seriously though, buy the bank. You'll see EXACTLY how this sound was made and pick up a bunch of other thoroughly dirty sounds to boot. It's about £20 on Loopmasters. You can actually hear the patch you are after in action if you listen to the second demo song on the site.

    Yeah it's true. Just cracked mine open for my second self repair in as many months...totally broken, but it does mean I can confirm that the wood under the keyboard on the TI1 is not all it seems to be with it fresh in my memory. To be honest I would rather it wasn't there at all really. Wood is for sandal wearing, pipe smoking moog botherers. Y'know real 'analogue' casing...warms the oscillators even more!

    But don't take my word for it

    There are some other pretty naff and cheap design decisions in there like the power brick just bracketed in there. That's what blew in mine the first time I had to open it after being plugged in for god knows how many years. How much would it have cost to fit an off switch? Battery on the main board explains why it demands power all the time, but god knows what that is keeping warm when the power is disconnected as I thought all the memory was supposed to be flash. There are more horrors I don't expect of a boutique synth with this kind of price tag but I won't go into it. Anyway I still love the synthesis engine and will forgive it's failings once it has been repaired even if it has broken my heart. Though in all honesty I'd be just as happy with that engine in a plugin now.

    I'm going to stop hijacking this thread and go get the ball rolling with getting it serviced....then cry deeply...before meeting my deadlines with Reaktor and Massive, let's just hope I don't get too comfortable with them eh Access?

    This is bonkers. As a TI owner who bought one pretty early doors I'd be a bit upset to be told...

    'Oh...sorry you can't have feature X. Your hardware can do it, but it's just that John needs to sell his old TI2 Polar since he decided he'd prefer to have exactly the same hardware in black.'

    I paid just as handsomely years ago for what is the same architecture and I expect the same support. The TI2 is not a new synth just a hardware upgrade to the same platform. If the second hand market has decided that paying extra for a bit more DSP and extra veneer wood-chip sides isn't worth it so be it. Can't say I disagree with them.

    I don't have a problem really. As I said; I managed to automate what I wanted. It's not just the LFO either (that was just an example), quite a few automation roadblocks can be passed this way. I was just highlighting that some parameters 'not suitable for automation' can, in fact, be automated via proxy.

    Anyway it's either a loophole that needs closing (please no), a feature that needs adding (please yes) or a tooltip that needs changing.

    You are right though by the way. I was attempting to automate the amount the filter was modulated by the LFO...and succeeded through dirty tricks!

    Whilst trying to automate the LFO and filter behaviour of a patch last night I ran up against the issue that certain perameters are not eligible for automation. I was attempting to automate the influence an LFO had over filter cutoff. Right clicking on the relevant knob in Virus Control I was told that it could not be automated. I thought this a bit odd/limited and checked the manual. It explained that certain perameters were not automatabe due to them potentially causing problems with the synth engine. The manual was pretty clear about why this had been implemented, some parameters just aren't suitable for automation and may cause problems with the engine, but I didn;t really see how this was any more dangerous than tweaking the filter directly.

    Not wanting to admit defeat I attacked the issue a different way. I assigned the LFO as the source in the matrix and the LFO influence over the filter as the destination. I then assigned a soft knob to control to this assign slot. I then added the soft knob to automation...

    Hey presto! Delicious forbidden automation!

    Looking through the options in the matrix there are a load of these 'forbidden' perameters that could be automated via other controls such as soft knobs or the mod wheel. This leads me to my request...

    Given that I can automate many forbidden values via proxy of a soft knob (or other control), why not expose them directly to the sequencer?