Posts by TNM

Quote from Daricketts

Hi all,

I treated myself to a new MBP 16 and am gutted that new models cannot be downgraded from Catalina so (like everyone else) eagerly awaiting a 64bit version of this software allowing a return to simple, plugin driven beat-making.

Whilst I'm not as ticked off with Access Music as some others (the impact on me being relatively low) I do know this is not the case for everyone and effect may be significantly different based on your current setup. As such, better visibility and communication of what's going on (rather than people being forced to make assumptions) would allow informed decision making - ranging from the nuclear option; sell device, or whether to splash out (minimum?) few hundred quid on MIDI and Audio Devices plus cables or, as in my case, simply to understand whether to go through the mild annoyance of re-racking/wiring studio due to inconvenient current placement of the TI2 desktop (having never had to access the front panel during workflow before) - Doh!

In terms of software alternatives, has anyone actually tried this product mentioned above?

'These folks have their own product, minus the audio though, but the UI looks polished and similar to VC. They are also working on Catalina compatibility though.

https://www.mysteryislands-mus…editor-librarian-plug-in/'

If so, any feedback for the group (specifically, me)? -- As mentioned above, my issue is that I'd like to control the Synth from via a plugin (rather than rearranging studio to gain access to the front panel) if this does the job semi-decently, and achieves Catalina compatibility, I will happy buy a license to keep me ticking over until (if?) the Access offering is released.

Losing audio via USB is less of a bugbear... although I would like it back, if possible

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I think midi quest 12 might be an answer.. It is the only HW synth editor I know of with native AAX, and it indeed has full Virus TI support.

It's not pretty GUI wise, but it's a full editor and librarian. Like yourself, I am more than happy to lose USB audio and use analog outs. MQ is (very) expensive at 400 US bucks, but since it can effectively turn all my HW synths into plugins, I am gonna get it regardless of my virus decision (whether to keep or sell). I am just not sure if I am willing to buy another midi interface or upgrade an existing one to use the virus via standard midi i/o, and move it's spot in the studio either. I have a 20 port MTT hub with 500 watt power brick just for the hub, which has all my USB HW synths, and my motu midi din stuff is all maxed out.. I suppose I could change one of them to the midi express XT and get 3 more ins and 2 more outs which would leave room for another old school synth in future, but I could also sell the virus at a profit where I am located and get something else, which is also enticing. Of course, access could just make it simple and fix it like everyone else has. I mean even Roland had a full Catalina upgrade for the Integra-7 ready very fast (for example).

Quote from acodmt7

TNM - “you buy other awesome EDM hardware synth” , well then what hurts you using the virus ti as a standard hardware synth then.... your the one being ridiculous about it , or Atleast apparently so because your acting like it’s totally unusable when it’s actually not...

much more therapeutic programming it from the panel anyways I find

when did i say it was unusable? I was asking others as I have NOT upgraded to Catalina nor do I want to, but won't have a choice when I buy the new mac pro later in the year (have to get it before the new OS as that will bring fresh set of problems again, so around September). The whole point was that I don't know.

And if I used that word, it would have meant the plugin. If I buy something for a specific type of purpose, then I expect it to work. I am more than happy to use the hardware outs, but someone said MIDI is broken in Catalina also. Someone ELSE, not me. I don't have any midi ports left right now, all 11 i/o are in use (5 on a motu microlite, 6 outs on a motu micro express), and the rest of my 25 ish synths separate from that, all use USB for midi.

I am even happy to not use the plugin if I can get the midi to work over USB.. But it is being said that midi over USB is now broken in current mac OS.

So, that's very close to unusable. I'd have to control it entirely from hardware, and that's not what I bought the virus for, with it's tiny strip screen.. I bought it cause it HAS such a detailed editor.. why should I have to buy a 3rd party solution for it instead of access fix it? Not my problem. It's theirs. Oh, I even said I'd be happy to use the audio outs, midi over USB, and the stand alone librarian in windows.. I said precisely that.. I just wanted confirmation it would work and that midi still works ok in Catalina.. and finding this out for SURE one way or another has been like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip.

You come across as a condescending little troll, so another user blocked. Wow, what a day.

Quote from ChrisCabbage

You appear to be trolling now. I’ve been working with synths and recording kit for more than 30 years now. I’m also a software engineer, working in embedded multimedia systems. I know a fair bit on what I’m talking about.

I’m not obliged to help people like yourself mate. Good luck with finding solutions to your problems. I’m no longer responding to your posts.

I have been doing it since I was 17, and now 47.. so.. guess what? Yeah, 30 years also. Ok, professionally since around age of 20 when I opened my first studio.

You're the troll. When did I ask for YOUR help? LOL. Muted, if you are such a snowflake that you can't handle anyone telling you you are being too fussy over a couple milliseconds latency, then good riddance to you..And fat lot of good 30 years experience got you, as all synths have latency, and older digital synths have way more latency than using the virus via analog output mode. Bah bah.

PS it works perfectly here going into my UA apollo using Console to monitor, go figure. It records a couple millesconds off, due to the D/A then A/D latency, but ALL my synths do (except for the analogs). That's just the nature of the beast. Live with it as there is no way around it. Well, in pro tools you can put a per sample level delay on every midi port, so you could effectively have it record 2 milliseconds early or whatever the exact figure is per synth, but I don't know about other DAWs as I don't use them, nor do I bother doing it myself. Who cares? Do we need our music THAT robotic? Geez. You nasty little troll.

Quote from ChrisCabbage

I don't think you're understanding the issue. My audio interfaces (RME Multifaces) work fine and I use multiple external synths - very low latency and spot-on timing.

When the Virus TI plug-in is running, PDC applies and there's latency, which is compensated for by PDC.

When the plug-in is running, you can't send MIDI direct to the Virus, it can only go through the plug-in.

well you need to learn to explain your problem more clear in the future.

What are you saying, that the plugin sending midi to the virus and then the audio coming out of the D/A instead of USB, is not compensated correctly? Do you realise how microscopic that latency is? You are being ridiculous. EVERY hardware synth has output latency, even real analogs (although they are in the microseconds, not milliseconds). There is no real world scenario where any recording could be negatively affected by recording the virus audio outs rather than USB.. and if you really believe there is, then maybe a robot should be making your music and have zero room for anything other than perfect zero humanised doof doof sound. I have played with mine today from the analog outs using the plugin, and it feels like 1MS. literally. I mean, you are being pedantic in a way I never experienced before. The USB audio thing actually always sucked, that was the worst feature.. You had to set specific DAW buffers, and it always felt awful and laggy to play.. Now, it's like any other synth and that's just FINE. However, some are saying Catalina breaks midi from the plugin to the audio outputs even, so... it's a moot point isn't it, especially in future. It's up to Access to fix this, and I guarantee you they never will. They have zero interest in the virus anymore other than getting whatever they can for remaining stock. Do you really think they care even 0.00001% about us? I don't.

Quote from biochill

Someone said the sysex information is available from support. I figured indeed it is, so thanks Access Music!

Here are some alternatives for those willing to try:

These folks have their own product, minus the audio though, but the UI looks polished and similar to VC. They are also working on Catalina compatibility though.

https://www.mysteryislands-mus…editor-librarian-plug-in/

Then there is Ctrlr if you don’t mind the quirks and the „hackiness“:

https://ctrlr.org/access-virus-ti-snow/

And there is this nice iPad app called Touch Virus:

https://www.maartenlierop.nl

I am now going to try and write the Virus Librarian tool I’ve always wanted.

LLAP and don’t troll this thread too much.

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That guy refuses to answer me, even to just say "no, never", as to why there is no AAX.. so.. I will never support someone who ignores a potential customer. I also asked about blue cat patchwork as a workaround and heard nothing. Forget it. It looks nice but I have a solution.. Midi quest, as ugly as it is, has a full virus TI2 editor and native aax plugin.. If it doesn't work with the USB for midi, I will just use one of my motu midi ports for it and the stereo audio out, or maybe I'll even use 4 outputs for better multi timbral control. I have so many hardware and every single one I own is covered by midi quest 12, so I have been saving for it for a while. Just to add one more thing though.. the reason I like the virus is because it has the needed step effects on board as well as formant filters which not many of my hardware has (if any others at all have them actually), but it's becoming a bit of a HF already. I just realised, I can upgrade to Catalina tomorrow, no more worries like there was a few months back, and ALL my 350 plugins are 100% compatible, as well as ALL my other hardware. Roland already released an integra update within weeks for example. Yamaha a motif. The ONLY thing in my entire studio that doesn't work in Catalina is the virus.. so is it *really* worth going through so much hell for ONE synth, with this sort of disgraceful support? It's like it's telling me to give it up ASAP and just move on. I don't like the idea of being a slave to anyone, especially access. I think before long it will pass and I will be over it.. i will buy some other awesome EDM hardware synth

Quote from skittb123

Today I did some experimenting with a cheap secondhand audioface I got.

Using the Virus's Analog outs does work when playing midi by hand, but it doesn't play back the actual midi notes in your DAW.

For that you'd need to setup the Virus as an external midi instrument, which means you can't use the plugin.

So not only audio via usb is broken, the plugin functionality is broken too. You can only use the plugin for programming patches rightnow, nothing else.

I really hope you guys at Access could give us some updates soon!

Even if that means bringing the bad news.. (no more updates for MacOS 10.15 and later) at least we won't be kept in the dark anymore..

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So you are saying even with the physical outputs, the plugin can't play back midi in the DAW?

Oh well then, there goes my idea for Catalina (outlined in another thread).

Is this still the case with 10.15.3?

I guess the other option now is a third party editor and using the standard midi ports. I don't understand why the usb midi would be broken, I mean, that should even work in a class compliant fashion

Real bummer, as I really want a mac pro.

Quote from ChrisCabbage

Doesn't then have PDC applied. Unless anyone knows of a way to get the system to delay compensate, when using the analogue (or SPDIF) outputs?

Again incorrect. Your audio interface should tell the DAW how much latency the driver and A/D have. Some interfaces have inaccurate drives, but then you use the recording offset in the DAW which all DAWs have. Do a loopback test to find out if the interface is reporting incorrect latency.

If you have a MOTU interface it definitely will be, their drivers are way off.

Quote from MangoBlack

The audio outs on my Snow have an annoying buzz. I've read others have the same issue. I haven't updated to Catalina yet and don't plan to for a long while, but when I do my unit will essentially become a useless brick. Access has broken my heart from day one. TI was always a headache. I doubt the company has much interest in this aging product anymore. Too busy selling guitar amp profilers.

assuming you have a decent audioface with balanced inputs, use pseudo balanced cables. Problem solved, buzz gone.

You can buy them from soundonsound ready to go, i have all my synths connected with them (unless the synth has balanced outs, then of course I use normal balanced cables).

Hi, I am a very patient guy.. but 2 weeks I thought was enough to wait for an answer?

Should i maybe be contacting them at support directly?

I am surprised if it wouldn't work, but can't take the risk unless I know..

As long as Marc is sure that Midi is working fine between catalina virus au plugin and the synth, then yeah, it will work. This is all I need to know for sure.

Once again in case the previous post was too long.

Catalina proposed Virus TI workaround:

1) Use USB for midi only with the virus plugin, therefore still essentially have total integration and patch recall with the DAW.

2) Use physical audio outs into a mixer for sound rather than rely on audio via USB, which is not working in Catalina

3) Use the standalone librarian in Windows via Bootcamp where needed.

Yes? No?

I have just thought of something. Sadly, I couldn't part with my virus.. I am not going to sit here bouncing stems of 1000 songs in realtime and I still want to use it cause it covers almost my entire song sounds needs in some cases.

I have an idea. I keep reading that the virus midi works in Catalina but not the audio. And that VCC will never work.

So.. my proposed solution.. can you please chime in on this Marc? As I am interested in the new mac pro and i'll have to use Catalina.

I install the virus midi driver which i presume will still install on Catalina?

I use the physical audio outs of the virus for audio, going into my UA apollo.

Virus control PLUGIN will still then save the virus settings and load them with my songs and the midi will be sent to it properly as it always has done, correct?

If i want to use some features of virus control centre, I simply log into my bootcamp partition and run it there.

All good?

And not using the USB for audio, will mean I am not really subject to that latency or worrying about (for example) putting Logic in small buffer mode.. The latency will more or less be instant now like my other hardware synths (well with whatever the D/A latency of the virus is).

Do you still recommend i run the midi over USB or the standard midi ports in this case?

Quote from blinde_Q

i understand if a product is discontinued, but access is selling the TI2 series till today so they have to support there hardware. (and future os compatibility, as they are selling the TI2)

2009 i bought a TI2 (the desktop version) now in 2019 the price is about 100€ higher! why? for the troubles you will run into, if you buy one?

in 2019/2020 a hardware synth (still selling) in the price range of 1.800 to 2.200 with such troubles is not the best advertising.

don't get me wrong, the TI2 is a great synth (I love it) but these driver and software stories are driving customers angry!

(there are several threads in this forum where users speak about that)

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Exactly.. It's not as if they aren't selling them *everywhere* still for top dollar.. overseas that is.. I just found out, to my pleasant surprise, that all major retailers in Australia are out of stock.. with the new import fees and ship costs to Australia, I doubt people will buy them from overseas. This means if I strike and sell now, I may be able to get a bit of money back on it and just be rid of it. I'll bounce any stems using it to audio in all my projects, and just be done with it. That's IF I can get a good price and not lose a cent to what I paid and maybe even make some money..

Edit.. excellent news! as I was writing this I did a search of eBay AU, and there is not a single virus ti2 desktop for sale in Australia. There is one Polar from a reseller for 4100$ on the entire site.. Time to strike! Mine is beyond mint, I have never touched the hardware, it has sat on a desktop, non racked, only using the plugin editor. It's literally like brand new. I'll be sad at first , but knowing I am not going to stay on this 8 core mac forever, and knowing I will have no other option in future than Catalina, I am not going to torture myself over the virus. I'd rather it be gone and not have that constant worried feeling about it.. I mean, the next version of Logic and Cubase will likely be Catalina minimum (cubase is already mojave minimum with 10.5), and I do use those almost as much as I use Pro Tools, depending on the project.. Curiously, I spent all day in bootcamp today, and it outperformed mac os on the same iMac as far as virtual instruments and plugin count was concerned, but I just don't think I can get used to Windows as an OS overall.. It's really difficult to like (just my opinion please don't shoot).

Quote from Reverend

So the TI2 came out in 2009, 10 years ago. I could understand that Access stoped working on a new driver after 10 years. Roland does that after 7 years of a product being discontinued iirc. But Access is still selling these synths as of today (for quite some money) and I wonder if the box still says "Comes with Total Integration for Mac and PC) --- As a buyer of a brand new synth I would expect this to be working.

I hope they fix it as I like working with TI on my Mac, so far I am not switching to 10.15 for several reasons.

Roland rock.. all my stuff already has Catalina drivers.. sure, some of it is newer than the virus.. but.. the point is, they obviously care. Simple as that.

Quote from Marc

here's some info to you:

the only component which is not 64 bit compatible is Virus Control Center. what we face right now are different issues we need to take a look at and especially the manufacturer of the driver has to take a look at. as for the Virus Control plug-in: midi works, audio doesn't.

in theory, the firmware can be updated by using the installer, not only Virus Control Center. That doesn't work right now but it is not a problem of 32 bit code. We are looking into this as well and my hope is that we can rather easily solve that part.

catalina in a problematic update for the entire audio industry. if you can, sit it out - that's what I will do on my music mac.

i'm writing this on 9/10/19 - i'll keep you posted.

hth, marc

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Unfortunately some of us have no choice when our 7 year old mac dies and the new ones come forced with Catalina. Can I ask why support has been stopped for such an exceptional product? The only thing I can think of is to buy a mac model that originally shipped with an OS prior to Catalina, and that means It should be able to be downgraded. But new mac pro and 16" MacBook, no chance. I just don't understand why there have been no updates in 2 years, and I don't understand for the life of me why an AAX plugin wasn't made..Even small tiny indi developers do it.. I mean if worse came to worse you could have simply wrapped the AU in an AAX shell. I have always had the honest yet disturbing feeling in the last few years that Access couldn't care less about the Virus, yet still sell them happily for very high prices.

Sometimes I wish I had just bought a second hadn't Virus B cause there are many proper plugin editors for those from third parties that can do much of what VCC does, including total recall. In fact, I might search to see if there is a plugin editor from a third party for the TI, that could solve the issue.. I won't be able to get USB audio but that doesn't matter for me personally, as I use the analog outs going into the UAD anyway so I have nice low latency and can apply gnarly UA effects Maybe guys this is the solution, to find a third party plugin editor and encourage them to keep updating it by giving the developers our money. Still, there must be something seriously wrong at Access when Apple has has hinted at the end of 64 bit for years, and flat out warned about it for over a year, and access didn't have a solution ready. It should have been priority one when these machines are still selling all over the place for four thousand Australian dollars.

I would have to be literally out of my mind to give up OS X and a turnkey computer, to go to a custom windows build just for the virus, especially since I truly hate windows as an OS anyway. I just do not understand why the virus was so brazenly abandoned and why no AAX support came. Catalina is a real problem.. soon ANY mac sold will NOT be able to roll back lower than Catalina, and you guys should be on top of it NOW and get it 100% working. I came to the site today expecting to find a catalina installer and lo one behold, all I got was bad news.

I tell you, if Access some day gets itself together and releases some new amazing synth product, I will never, ever buy it again.. This is it for me.. I spent a lot of money upon this virus TI2.

Anyway, no matter what your rebuttal is, the fact of the matter is you had more than a year when you absolutely knew ALL 32 bit apple support was ending, and you didn't bother to provide a solution.

Quote from lindnerundweiss

It seems that in Cubase 5 there is no more the possibility to deactivate delay compensation for individual plugins or individual tracks.

Nor on any DAW i have personally ever seen.. it's either on or off globally.

Logic/Cubase/Ableton/ProTools/S1 all behave this way.

Necro bump but I myself was looking for the info of the OP.. cause pro tools runs best for me at 128 samples, which means virus through the USB is 256 which is too much to play "live". I can't run pro tools at 32 buffer like I did logic, it's just too stressful on the computer.

I only want to monitor the virus through the analog outs when i am playing with my keyboard to record a midi part.

The actual bouncing and playback can all be set to USB after the fact as far as I am concerned, so everything bounces nice and sample accurate, without a need to record the audio.

Quote from Marc

reno, there is absolutely no reason to install 10.13 once it's out. i doubt that anybody in the entire audio industry will recommend you to update instantly. our recommendation is: wait until everything you need is compatible.

I agree Marc! If i had it my way i would stay on yosemite forever. 10.10.5

I simply have no issues, with my myriad of hardware and daw performance. El capitan was an absolute nightmare but sierra is much better thankfully.

The problem though Marc is, our DAW manufacturers. They are forcing us on MAC at least, to be cutting edge with our OS. I am lucky with pro tools in that 10.10 is still supported even with PT 12.8, but i am sure V13 will drop it.

Apple has made 10.11 mandatory for a point update of logic. A point update! 12.3!

steinberg will make 10.12 mandatory for cubase 9.5, and 10.13 for cubase 10, and so on.

Quote from Marc

It matters to me. I don't like the idea of an accusation which is based on a post which was apparently removed. In fact I have a hard time believing that a statement like this was just removed. I don't think it was there in the first place. But obviously this all happened a long time ago, so I guess we both have a hard time to proof what was written here.
And also, there is a big difference in between "Access seemed keen on bringing an AAX version of the plugin at first" and "looking into it" - so maybe you could choose your "quotes" a little more carefully.

well please get over it.
Risey obviously meant no disrespect.

Think of the pro tools users of which there are many of us, who can't use your product natively, and do something about it..

In fact, the 5 minutes you took making that reply could have been 5 minutes work on an aax version.

If you really wanted to, you could all huddle up and do it within a week.

I am GUESSING, not accusing but guessing, it is politics why you don't want to do it because you have to sign the avid pace developers form ( i am not exactly sure what this entails but i do know it's mandatory for aax).

Quote from Risey

I agree with you that support has changed for the worse, I was suspicious when they re branded the virus which added more polyphonic notes, companies usually do things like this when they need money, just like the gaming industry with their remaster editions. Access seemed keen on bringing an AAX version of the plugin at first, then they said it would not be possible, so why not implement something similar to Patchwork into the software, but the truth is probably more about resources and money. They have ridden on the back of the Virus TI for too long and unless they bring something new to the table I fear this company will vanish and for a short time maybe the Virus TI will become popular once again as people rush to buy one before they vanish for good....

Hi Risey, i can assure you it is entirely possible to do an AAX, i've even spoken to aax coders about this who understand how the virus works. It's because Access don't *want* to use the resources to do so, nothing more nothing else.

Pro tools delay compensation, although only up to 16383 samples, is the best I have ever experienced in any daw.. It is so good that you can change a plugin that has dynamic latency and literally see the delay value change in the mixer info in real time, without audio ever going out of phase, all in realtime! logic needs playback to stop and start for that situation, cubase farts, and so on. Avid are always late to the party but when they do things they do it properly. Look at freeze and offline bounce for example, one of the best versions ever, besides perhaps studio 1.

Anyway, pro tools PDC limit is WAY enough for the virus.. and the fact that it works via patchworx in itself, actually proves it's doable anyway..

Cheers

I just don't have the screen realestate for a wrapper then the main gui on top.. i have patchworx and have used it when desperate.. but sometimes playback won't start with spacebar unless the patchworx is in focus rather than the virus, and you are always juggling 2 gui.. For me, that is an inspiration and workflow killer.. so basically, i barely use the unit. I do kindly appreciate your advice, and yes i can confirm it works for those using PT that are desperate, but i got such a good deal on mine I think i'll get my money back anyway. I got it brand new for exactly half of what they cost to buy in AU right now. It's the desktop Ti2 so quite a popular one.. I will give access till years end, bombard them with emails till they grace me with the courtesy of a reply, and sell it Jan 1 if nothing positive has happened towards the aax, even an announcement would suffice.

Before i visited today, i had no idea support was this bad.. i read a lot of the forum.. basically, access are going bust, yes? Is this what we are all assuming?

Anyway, i have my nord A1R, still have my master keyboard AN1X which I love, a blofeld and pulse 2 and a couple other things.. I am not going to lose any sleep over ditching the virus.

Midi quest say they are releasing a 64 bit version and AAX next revision, which will be able to basically turn any HW synth into a "plugin". That might be a solution too.
Will think about it.

The bit i like is the polyphony, i can usually use a few parts.. a pad, a bass and lead, no probs. This is the thing I like about it, and i save all the cpu from my computer.. I mean there are things i like about it, and the gazillions of patches out there from Pros which really let's you learn how to program great stuff with it, but it's just this sinking feeling i am having that for some reason, access is going bust.

I actually wonder, if the perpetual betas, *ridiculous* prices especially in foreign countries, and the lack of AAX are all players in this scenario. I bet you they are. I think people are more willing to support a company that has stellar support and communicates with it's customers. This is the key issue. IMO.

Cheers!

I would say bounce every single thing to audio.. the raw midi and patch, with each song where you use the virus, so at least you will never lose any sounds from your *songs*. This is the most critical.

The units, hardware wise, are pretty well known for being durable though aren't they? I don't use mine much due to the lack of AAX, but it's never given me the slightest issue mechanically. (or with the AU in logic).

You guys have convinced me.. I have had it.. access basically have zero support and I want to sell it before they shut down, whilst i will still get good coin for it.
Even a "we will never do an AAX" is better than this. Silence is deafening.