Advice on syncing TI with in Ableton Live 9

    Hi,


    Im trying to record audio clips in Ableton from the TI , but Im not quite sure the best way to set things up.
    I seem to be getting some delays, so that I'm not exactly hitting the beat.
    Ive setup ableton, for the audio interface, and proved the latency on the audio interface is compensated correctly.
    So i suspect its the midi side.


    Setup:
    Virus TI 5.0.7, Mac OS 10.9.1, Ableton Live 9.1
    Virus is connect through analog outs oo my Focusrite Audio interface connected over firewire.
    Virus is using physical midi (again via focus rite) .. so no USB


    Important: I have another midi controller controlling the Virus TI (via Ableton) i.e. I'm not using the TI keyboard.


    Im only interested in recording audio clips for looping, (live), not recording midi or playing back midi clips.


    the questions are:
    a) Do you use Ableton … 'External Instrument' … if so do you set any hardware delay?


    b) I assume track delay is only used on playback… is this something I need to use on the audio loops?


    c) Midi clock - do you use the virus as clock master, or slave?
    … argh, this gets complicated, and a source of issues
    Ive tried both…
    If i have it as master (i.e. TI. Midi clock -> send) , I see the Ableton tempo going up and down constantly… most worryingly, it varies most as you start playing notes.
    … i.e. it seems like the TI is not keeping constant time.
    If i have as slave (i.e. TI midi clock -> sync external), Then if I do something like have an ARP, again I can see sometimes the arp moving off beat.


    Im not too worried about ARPs, as I don't use, but Im worried about other clock timings in particular LFOs, not being accurate.
    (I tried over USB, and it seemed no better than over midi cables)


    I did see 7G video and tried this, and its fine usually… but the midi clock seems to wander, and his videos seem to imply the TI as either master or slave is fine, but this is not my experience.


    d) if using midi clock sync, should I use song or pattern?


    Actually I guess any help or pointers from any one using Live 9, and not using VC … about how they get the TI to play nicely would be very welcome :)


    Thanks
    Mark

    I'll try to answer best I can, as I had similar issues but do not own the Ti anymore.


    What has worked for me is this:


    FIRST - in Ableton's preferences, go to the MIDI/Sync tab, go to the MIDI Ports section and make sure that you check "Track" and "sync" for your MIDI interface that has the Virus connected to it.


    SECOND - Check that you Virus in properly sync'ed. To do that, I start Ableton's metronome and a basic clip (like a 4 on the floor kick) and listen if Virus is in sync properly. If you bring the tempo up of down in Ableton, the Virus should follow.


    THIRD - set up an Audio track in Ableton, set the input to that where your Virus is plugged into on your interface.


    FOURTH - Arm your track, and play.

    ok, this is what Im doing... and sometimes it seems to work fine, and at others it seems to drift.
    (i assume by SECOND, you are using the virus as a slave)


    I think its generally ok, if Im sending out notes, but of course this doesn't really test the clock sync - it just tests your audio interfaces delay compensation - which Im now pretty happy with.
    Also yes, the tempo changes if I change it in ableton, and 'visually' it looks to be on beat.
    but if I look at audio tracks they look slightly off.


    so the way I tested was ...
    a) create a 8 bar loop, place one sustained note on this loop, and load a Virus patch (with no attack and short decay) with an ARP, set to 1/2 clock and a arp pattern which outputs every beat a note... (i think 2, but can remember now)
    b) create an audio track, with input from audio interface from virus output. (important: monitor = off, other AI compensation is ignored)
    now hit record...
    ableton will now play the loop...


    what will happen, is virus will start the arp every 8 bars... and put out an arp beat every 1/2, and this will be recorded into your audio track


    the reason this test is important, is the TI is using its clock for all notes EXCEPT the first every 8 bars, and the 8 bars gives it time to 'drift', if its clock is not exactly in sync.
    (the reason this is the case, is ableton is only sending the first note of the 8 bars, the virus has to generate all others)


    after a few loops, we can stop it and look at the audio track.
    What we will see, is a spike every 2 beats (assuming 4/4 due to the 1/2 on the arp). This is fine, and the process works very well...


    now assuming your delay compensation on your AI is correct (which mine is), these beats should EXACTLY hit the beat marks.
    what Ive found is early on they do, but as the loop progresses, they drift slightly away from the beat...
    what the 8 bar looks, and ableton sends a fresh note... they sync up again.


    the only explanation I can think of, is that the virus clock is not exactly in step with the ableton clock... hence the notes sent by the virus do not match with the beat marks of ableton.


    (I can further 'prove' this, if I do an 8 bar loop, but in ableton put a beat every 1/2 beat... then correctly the audio track lines up)



    I did wonder about using the virus as master, but the tempo keeps moving in ableton, so I think this has the same issue.


    most worrying of all, is that playing notes makes this variance higher.. implying somehow playing notes is making the midi clock signal uneven...
    (this would be terrible... its a fundamental, that clock signal should not be affected by other processor load)