Oli, thank you for your feedback. I cant be sure if I can rely on this though cause I don't know if the USB ports on windows behave exactly the same as for Windows, maybe I should have mentioned this on my first post. I'll create a ticket. Meanwhile, if anyone with a TI2 desktop with OS win 8.1 64bit is willing to share their experience - please feel free, it doesn't take more than 5 min
Syqmusic, thank you for your comments and clarifications.
There is a difference indeed between all 3 OSCs soloed, noted throughout the FQ spectrum.
Using init patch:
-setting OSC1, OSC 2 and OSC 3 to pulse
-setting unison to 8 voices
-setting unison detune to 58
-setting OSC balance all the way to OSC1
Result is OSC1. png
-setting OSC balance all the way to OSC2
Result is OSC2. png
-setting OSC balance all the way to OSC1 back again
-setting OSC1 PW to 100% (muted OSC effect)
-setting OSC 3 volume to 100
Result is OSC3 .png
All images taken using the freeze mode of the analyser after holding the same C key for 10 seconds. This means that the frequencies displayed are the loudest that occured in that 10 seconds interval.
More evidently the curve post 10khz on osc1 is "outbound" convex, while on OSC 2 its more "inbound" convex; indeed OSC1 has richer higher frequencies. OSC 3 looks a bit "clumsy" but with overall similar qualities to OSC1.
There is also a very minor difference noted between OSC1 and OSC2 without unison voices but it really is non audible - you literally have to see it to believe it.
I hope I got this right! Please do not ask "why" this is happening, I do not know
Ive had my desktop TI2 for about 6 years now but im not sure if this is normal behavior or if I just noticed.
On my actual synth, I have my audio clock source set to "auto".
Now, If I turn on my virus and then my pc, all good, screen says "USB link established" and "audio clock changed" and under audio clock in the menu of the synth, the frequency is "synced to host". Nice!
But...if I turn on my PC first and then my virus, it doesn't sync to host. Not even if I turn on or off my synth. I have to restart the pc or more simply re-plug in the usb cable (either to virus or pc usb port) in order to get it to sync. Is this normal behavior?
I don't really want to go down the vicious circle of repairing/ installing/uninstalling/trying other cables/hubs etc...:)
I'm absolutely stunned that this was just discovered (or was it?). Thank you Oli for your contribution. I will add that it's not just the classic and WT modes but all modes show this post 50% sawtooth behaviour. Also most of the parameters on OSC 1 (f-spread, detune etc) appear not to affect the FM'ed signal. Setting OSC balance all the way to OSC 2 renders most OSC 1 parameters useless. It is also happening off-daw so it's not VC related.
You are probably right, but provided your concern, I have no idea how to reliably measure polyphony now. I guess I have to load other presets and compare between the different play modes. I'll revert
p.s. it's somewhat funny and awesome at the same time that this 7 year old synth now is still not fully explored
I agree with your concern, but the difference vs pure midi playback is so damn obvious here...never mind its fine
Hi Oli, using "init8" as per above: on the keyboard, I was pressing a single key and verified that sound is coming out. Then pressed on top a second key and verified that sound was being generated from both the first and the second key - simultaneously. I was doing that until I eventually reached the 13 keys - 104 voices sound. Additionally on 13 keys I was lifting a key randomly (so 12 keys) and the change was always reflecting the key removed.
In addition to what Mark says, I think "middle C" would just be the C closest to the center of the keyboard, hence in theory it might vary from keyboard to keyboard. On mine it's actually the middle one. According to International Scientific Pitch, middle C is C4.
In my daw, the audition C actually matches C5, while my tuner matches it at C4.
To really answer your question though, my ti2 produces the audition tone at 261-262hz
Hey man, this is paranoid... I wanted to check out your music, which I liked...then wanted to follow you on soundcloud, only to see that instead you started following me just 2 days ago
Keep it up, I see you really like FM, nice thoughts out there!
OK things are getting a bit weird now...
Per the manual: · Unison Mode (Common Menu) – divides the voice count by the chosen value.
I created an init patch with 8 voice unison. Let's call this preset "init8". With the advertised 110 voice polyphony I should be able to create a 13-14 note chord (14x8=112)
Multi mode (live)
I loaded init8 on multi mode. .I could actually pull off a 13-chord note (yeah I only have 10 fingers and a thick chin!) , so 13x8 =104 voices indeed.
Multi-single mode (within daw)
Playing init8 from my midi keyboard, again I could pull off a 13-note chord so again 13x8=104 voices. The weird thing comes via midi playback... Via midi playback, I can only do a 5-chord, so 40 voices, which is again as per my very first experiment.
... how is this possible? Now I guess my synth is fine, the limit is there but why does the synth behave so differently if I play the notes on my keyboard VS midi playback, both via the daw? Isn't the keyboard still sending midi messages?
tonstudio96, this is what I'm asking - whether it's an issue or not My TI2 is desktop.
My main experiment was via my daw so yes, midi. The live experiment was naturally on multisingle mode.
I think my question will be simplified if we learn the definition of a "voice", as per Access, first.
I was trying to record my virus on a pre-master final project yesterday where I discovered a bug which I would like to share. I'm using a licenced version of FL12.3. I have not upgraded yet to 12.4 so this might have been fixed already but still an interesting find.
Options - project general settings - there's a setting called PPQ. Default value is 96. I had this on 960, so maximum zoom level, and I noticed that the automatons would affect the virus in really really odd ways. For example an event on a pitch bend would go forever. Max PPQ also seemed to affect my other non-virus hardware. I could re-produce the bug very reliably.
For other daw users, PPQ is essentially the zoom level so there might be a similar setting on your daw.
It looks more that the bug is on FL's side but I hope this post helps somebody! I'm reporting to FL forum as well.
Supposedly the virus TI2 can have up to 110 voices of polyphony. This is of course subject to the complexity of the patches used. It's not like I or anyone else will actually need all of these voices simultaneously but I wanted to see if the limit is really up there - maybe as a sort of test for the DSP chips and the general well-being of my synth!
I did carry out the test - all 16 channels firing away a 6 chord simultaneously (so 16x6=96) using the init patch with no modifications whatsoever. Sure interesting enough, channels 1-4 produced 6 voices each while channel 5 and 6 barely produced 2 voices. Channels 7-12 produced no sound. Total voices = 4x6+2x2=28.
Switching all 16 channels to osc balance all the way to play only osc1 produced no change, which verified my understanding that the virus has always both osc 1&2 on - it's just a volume fader.
Switching now OSC1 to a sine wave ,naturally a simpler wave, produced again no change. I guess the reason is that it uses the same amount of memory as the init saw.
Switching to a WT and turning off the LFOs, again same result.
Carrying out the test live (no VC) I managed to have 6 non-init patches running at the same time, using 10 arpeggiated voices. If I remember correctly 4 patches had complexity 1/5 and the other 2 3/5, which I guess is similar to the 28 init voices as above. One of the 3/5 patches had arp mode=chord.
From the manual: Patches using e.g. 1 or 2 simple oscillators, one or two mod routings and one or two effects can achieve upwards of around 64 voices. With the very simplest of patches you can achieve far more than this - for example, please check out ROM B-124 ‘Tutorial 5’, a nice, warm PWM pad with Delay and Chorus, capable of being played with more than 100 simultaneous voices.
I loaded this preset, and the results were about the same, only change is that channels 5+ would randomly play either the full 6 chord, a single note or nothing at all. Definitely an increase -lets say 40 best case- but no way "more than 100". Even if we decide that each OSC is a voice, then here all voices are at the very best 80.
Now the question - where are these 110 voices? Is there something wrong with my unit? I know that one dsp chip takes over even channels (2,4,6 etc) and the other dsp the odd channels (1,3,5 etc) so I know both dsps have the same power. Can anyone verify or comment?
I think that the contour behaves a bit differently depending on the LFO shape...Essentially it "skews" the shape.
For example, if you use a triangle LFO, setting contour at the one extreme will make the triangle into a positive ramp; set the contour at the other extreme and it becomes a negative ramp. Now this effect is neither zooming in nor cutting the tail. Unless of course both the tail and the "head" of the wave are being "cut".
It's even more interesting when a square LFO is being used. I think positive contour doesnt do anything (dont have my synth in front of me now) but setting negative contour -like pwm- makes just the "up" part of the lfo last shorter, sort of like the "note length" in the arpeggiator. Assign a square LFO to patch volume and you'll understand better what I'm on about.
In any case contour is a fascinating and maybe neglected parameter I feel..maybe the name "shape" would have been more appropriate? Also exactly here is where I wish the graphic of the LFO wave would get updated in real time, just like in the OSC section...
I confirm this is what happens here too...sort of. I have my virus (Ti2 desktop) connected with both usb and midi. The midi gets disabled only when I load VC. But I'm using a midi keyboard (which essentially is my "centerpiece").
Not sure about the reason midi and usb cant be on at the same time but that 100ms latency you mention (85.33ms here) is a strong candidate.
Now as a workaround - if you must have the editor in front of you at all times, use your virus as midi only with a vst editor. Maybe use VC only when you want to go into sound design mode
Interesting find I have to admit.
The reason they are not the same is because OSC 2 is slightly detuned by default. Set detuning to 0 OR sync the oscillators to make them sound the same.
If you insist that one osc is missing some frequencies make sure you are not using the filters in split configuration.
Wait...you mean FM is just pitch modulation on steroids? sort of...? I'm not sure it is that simple! It definitely sounds so but I like more deep answers...to satisfy my inner geek
You know guys what's really ironic? If Access didn't have the Virus Control AT ALL, there wouldn't be ANY complaints...yes we all love lifetime free updates without sending over a simple thank you and yes VC can be improved but there's a point where a line is crossed...
Food for thought guys.
You bought a great hardware synth, didn't you? And it still works as that, doesn't it?
Maybe it's wrong to use a DAW with extremely limited plugin support and than start bothering other manufactureres not supporting it. Maybe you should ask the Pro Tools developers to support VST.
Where is the like button when you need it...
This "telephone" thing though is not happening when FM is not enabled. I dont think its the combination of FM/delay/reverb; the same telephonish sound is still there beyond D5 even with delay and reverb disabled.
I'm not an expert in FM (I'm still trying to really understand the difference between FM and pitch modulation:p) but it sounds like D5, i.e. the note where chaos is initiating, is sort of a cutoff point for FM to act much more fast...i'm not even sure if this this audio result is "correct" or if this is a software bug.
You can reduce the rate of FM though (OSC 1 semitone) to +24 and its fine for all notes!