Virus TI Snow Latency trough usb problem

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    Does anybody had this issue with the Virus TI Snow when recording trough it's analog outputs?
    This is driving me crazy all other synths are nearly same latency but this is recording a way too early before the others and there is no way to fix.
    If i try to make the midi track late a bit in milliseconds it's not always the same sometimes is more early sometimes less


    Any suggestions?


    I am using OSX 10.10 with RME Fireface sound card with buffer on 512


    Thanks in advance and i hope to fix this otherwise will consider selling this piece of gear.

  • basically this hasn't anything to do with the Virus, this has to do with pre-delay in your sequencer. It's called delay compensation and anytime you have any instruments or effect s on a track, it takes time to process them. Obviously you want everything to still sync up afterwards so what you do is slow down ALL the other tracks by the amount of time it takes to record that channel.


    This means that when you record something on a chack that doesn't have pre-delay, it will sound early. I can't tell you how to fix it specifically for your DAW, but I suspect that after you record everything you should be able to either slip the audio, or add pre-delay to that track. The delay amount will totally depend on how much is going on in your song and how many effects/instruments you use.

  • basically this hasn't anything to do with the Virus, this has to do with pre-delay in your sequencer. It's called delay compensation and anytime you have any instruments or effect s on a track, it takes time to process them. Obviously you want…


    How you explain the fact that all the other hardware synths are nearly same latency and then this synth comes a way to early before them there is no effects no nothing in this project just what you see on the image.
    Doesn't look normal to me because when i disconnect the usb cable and try to record trough it's midi ports latency is ok but as soon as put usb cable in midi ports becomes unavailable and i must send notes trough usb and this is what happens so you still thinking it's not a virus issue?

  • When you use the virus, the USB driver for Mac and PC automatically lets the DAW, in your case Cubase, know that it needs to turn on Delay Compensation. The reason is that the TI expects that you are using the Virus Control plugin to send everything back and forth. It adds a huge amount of delay to your other tracks to compensate for the delay caused by Virus Control. If you don't use VC, and you instead just use the midi ports on the USB, you will discover that the compensation is still on, and the virus sounds early. Either use the delay compensation with the VC plugin, or turn it off for your project in Cubase.


  • what's the issue with using the USB out? on top, if you feel that you cannot deal with the latency you always can just use traditional MIDI (which will not be sample accurate, like all you other synth ...)


    Yes there is no other option i guess then to use the USB or sell the synth.
    But what if i want to use my convertors instead of Virus TI Soundcard?


    If i use the traditional MIDI i can't edit the sounds with the Virus Control Plugin which then will give me a lot of pain to edit sounds going from one menu to another if i had Virus TI Desktop it wouldn't be a problem.


  • But what if i want to use my convertors instead of Virus TI Soundcard?


    What exactly do you want to acheive?

    Bass Player and Synthesist.
    Virus TI2 Darkstar | Virus TI2 Desktop | Moog Sub 37 | Blofeld | Machinedrum | Monomachine | Analog Four | Digitone | MPC Live | NI Maschine+
    Mac OS X 10.14.6 (Mojave) | Cubase Pro 11.0 | Ableton Live 9.6 | Logic 10.4 | MainStage 3.4 | NI Komplete Ultimate 13 | RME Fireface UFX+

  • You could always do that as a track bounce, after you've layed down audio tracks for all parts, in Cubase. You should be able to run any audio part out through your RME converters and back in.


    But that only captures the nonlinearities of the RME A/D but not of the Snow's D/A converters. I still don't fully understand the goal. Generally, I'd prefer less conversions, and therefore less artefacts.

    Bass Player and Synthesist.
    Virus TI2 Darkstar | Virus TI2 Desktop | Moog Sub 37 | Blofeld | Machinedrum | Monomachine | Analog Four | Digitone | MPC Live | NI Maschine+
    Mac OS X 10.14.6 (Mojave) | Cubase Pro 11.0 | Ableton Live 9.6 | Logic 10.4 | MainStage 3.4 | NI Komplete Ultimate 13 | RME Fireface UFX+

  • Ok.. I'm going to say it... Did you watch and read the correct set up guide? There are many ways you can use the virus but each way needs the correct configuration. First of all you need to know exactly what it is you want to do and why you want to do it that way.


    It will work.


    I noticed you are using Cubase, I'm a Cubase user. Any reason you haven't set up your other instruments as Hardware Instruments with in Cubase? Your missing out on a very powerful feature of it over many other DAWS. Do you have all those other devices going into individual inputs on your soundcard, with the ability to add VST plug ins to the audio your hardware would be currently streaming? No need to actually record it.

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    I'd prefer less conversions, and therefore less artefacts.

    Exactly why you use the USB, no conversion what so ever...


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    To record the virus trough the analog outputs into my RME convertors

    Why do you want to do this? it kind of contradicts this.


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    But what if i want to use my convertors instead of Virus TI Soundcard?

    To record analogue from the Virus it would need to generate the sound. Or, do you mean instead of using the Virus as the designated sound card for the project. The Virus still needs to use its D/A if you want to record it the old fashioned way but It doesn't need to be set as the project Soundcard to do so.


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    if i had Virus TI Desktop it wouldn't be a problem.

    There's no difference except one has a keyboard. (Edit: the Snow does have other differences. I'm comparing the TI keyboards to the TI desktop).


    Due to the way you use your old equipment, i think the way the Virus TI does things has confused you a lil. In my set up, 2x Presonus Firestudios, Virus TI and other hardware, I use the midi ins and out on both Presonus AND, the midi ins and outs on the TI, as well as the USB to control the TI. All my hardware runs into both my Presonus, which is the soundcard for my projects. If i wanted to route from the TI audio outs it to the Presonus, to capture the 'characteristics' of the converters, it can be done, but i'm not the type to do this.


    If you want to skip the characteristics of the Virus converters but only the RME fireface, you'd have to do that via a bounce and loop back. But, remember, non of your other hardware has the ability to skip their converters, unlike the Virus using the USB.

  • I've just had a lil play around to remember how it works. If you want to record the Virus so you have an audio track of it with in Cubase, use the 'Render in Place' function in the 'Edit' drop down menu. Don't forget you can set the Virus parts to 1 of 3 USB outs in VC 'Common' tab and can activate these out puts in cubase, the lil box with the outward pointing arrow, in the inspector view (left hand side of the screen) next to where it says Virus TI, when the Virus TI track is selected.


    Now you can record audio using the USB, even though the Virus isn't set as your sound card. Cubase will record all 3 of the USB Virus channels and automatically create an audio track for each, muting the original virus part, depending on the 'Render in Place' settings.


    However, you will begin to run into a new problem, Cubases infamous unintended midi swing, which I'm surprised you haven't noticed when recording your other hardware, yet!!!


    edit: And i will add... I've just realised if you leave the 'live' activated, when playing the midi back you've just recorded, although the live greys out and is unselectable, it's still messing with the timings. Make sure you deactivate this, before rendering/recording audio from the midi with in Cubase.

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    Ok.. I'm going to say it... Did you watch and read the correct set up guide? There are many ways you can use the virus but each way needs the correct configuration. First of all you need to know exactly what it is you want to do and why you want to do it that way.


    Yes i did read the setup guide and according to the setup guide the way i want to use is to use the ''D'' Direct button on the Virus TI Snow so i can record trough analog outputs from Virus into my RME-ADI-8-DS Converter but then i face again the problem with latency.


    Taken from the Virus TI Setup Guide:


    Direct monitoring can be enabled by clicking on the “D” button in the part bar on the left in Virus Control. This mode switches any part to the analogue outputs and ensures that the sound travels directly from the sound engine to those, bypassing the sequencer. This mode undoubtedly results in the smallest possible latency and feels the most snappy while recording a performance, but there is a mayor disadvantage to it: every note coming from the sequencer on this part will be played back too early by roughly 1/16 note (@120 bpm). Especially when you overdub, it is not advisable to use direct monitoring.



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    I noticed you are using Cubase, I'm a Cubase user. Any reason you haven't set up your other instruments as Hardware Instruments with in Cubase? Your missing out on a very powerful feature of it over many other DAWS. Do you have all those other devices going into individual inputs on your soundcard, with the ability to add VST plug ins to the audio your hardware would be currently streaming? No need to actually record it.


    My other Hardware is setup like external instruments and sent to record group from where then i record them as audio inside the box.

  • The D is for 'direct monitoring' to avoid latency when a performer is playing a keyboard, when this is being recorded, it will be in time. When a DAW sends midi to play it and the DAW is recording, it will be out of time. This is why we have this switch. The D is not for what you want it to do. The D should be turned off. Like i said earlier, "i think the way the Virus TI does things has confused you a lil"


    Use the 'Render in Place' function in Cubase to record the Virus. The Virus is connected to your PC via USB. The RME is set as your project sound card. Cubase sends midi down the USB triggering the Virus. The Virus sends digital information back up 1 of the USB outs (The TI has 3 in 1 cable) sellectable in VC for each part. This digital information is like all the other VST digital to be audio in your DAW. When you use 'Render in Place', the digital information from the Virus is now captured by Cubase and turned into a wav, quite like if you'd recorded it through the inputs on your RME. Using 'Render in Place' has so many benefits.


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    setup like external instruments

    I don't think you know what I mean by Cubases External instruments feature. Go in Devices drop down menu / VST Connections / External instruments and you'll see. That's where you set up your external instrument. I load all my hardware like any other VST, from the VST menu, as an instrument track, not a midi track. Enabling all your VST effects to be used on your hardware, in real time, non destructive, no need to record.

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    I don't think you know what I mean by Cubases External instruments feature. Go in Devices drop down menu / VST Connections / External instruments and you'll see. That's where you set up your external instrument. I load all my hardware like any other VST, from the VST menu, as an instrument track, not a midi track. Enabling all your VST effects to be used on your hardware, in real time, non destructive, no need to record.


    I am not that much of a noob i know what external instrument is i guess this is what you are talking about
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