My final verdict on the TI software

  • So after months of hard work im finally sitting on my throne, beneath me the tightest most impervious DAW i've ever created. No matter what i throw at it, it just smiles at me and i smile back. Victory.
    I learnt alot this time.

    But enough story telling, to the point, WinXP SP3 version 5.1 Build 2600, just installing the TI software and connecting it via usb with no software or sequencer loaded introduces around 70us of latency under USBPORT.SYS. It then goes on to affect OHCI1394.sys (firewire host controller) adding 30-40us and causing random spikes of 1000+. Why it should affect that driver i don't know but without the TI connected its down to 2us. A few other drivers are also affected slightly. This is without outputting via the USB audio port, with them its worse.

    While these figures don't sound like alot, and before you presume its a troubleshooting scenario, this system is down to 1-2us idle. I've added and tested quite a selection of devices both usb and firewire, maxed out the ports, a full sequencer + software installation, UAD, LM32, FF800, a bunch of usb midi controllers, maxed out my processors with tracks and it still keeps itself together with a dpc latency floating around 35us, no spikes, and 20 of that is from 2x MIdex8 midi interfaces which require this for their timing. Everything is stable no matter how complex the project becomes.

    I've literally sat down at this trouble shooting forum and clicked through 200+pages of threads to find any related to VC software problems and i have tried every method and tip ever mentioned. Im using a dedicated USB card, i've tried various installation procedures, cables, settings etc, it has made no difference. The Virus is running just fine as a standalone unit, no pops etc.

    I've tested my set-up rigorously from the bottom up. HIgh quality power supply, tested every chip and port on the motherboard deliberately trying to cause conflicts or any kind, every component is working harmoniously. Every step of the way i have been measuring with a DPC latency tool and Microsoft RATT logs. I installed every last thing i have in the studio, both software and hardware, ran everything simultaneously, plugged and pulled things, tweaked settings, it-just-works. I use to have hell with the Midex interfaces, this is no longer, but come to think about it, unplugging the usb connection of the Virus while a sequencer was running (although not advisable) would cause the MIdexs to crash, no other device did.

    So basically, rock solid DAW, teeny dpc latency, add Virus software, connect via usb and it all goes to hell. Perhaps not immediately noticeable without the dpc tools, but once the project develops this initally hidden erraticness and added latency can cause problems to your project and recording, thats without even considering the pops and clicks from the Virus itself via usb.

    Perhaps this is old news and well established, but i just thought i'd share my experience with the possibility of helping someone else out there who has lost more hair than i have slaving over this usb abomination. Sorry.

    If you are running the VC just fine even after maxing out your system + a gazillion devices, then *RASPBERRY* to you ! lol. But if you are experiencing any glitches of any sort before you've maxed your processing power, i'd take a closer look. Me personally im abolishing as many usb devices as i can. I used to run everything via usb until i realised that just moving the mouse was tipping me over. You blame the mouse, you blame the driver, blame the gpu, its not, its just that usb is a horribly finnicky process to have jumping around under the bonnet while you're trying to record audio.

    I've done away with the usb connection of my midi controllers, powered them all via one multi-out 9v adapter, and let the midi interfaces handle the midi. Finally bliss.

    Good luck people, and i almost forgot, surely somebody should come out with a standalone or vst editor for the TI !
    I've tried Soundquests version but its not up to date with features and very buggy. Would love to see a soundiver in action again. The Virus C one was excellent. :thumbup:

  • I've done away with the usb connection of my midi controllers, powered them all via one multi-out 9v adapter, and let the midi interfaces handle the midi. Finally bliss.

    You shouldn't.
    VC plugin, or more generally audio-over-USB may cause glitches ; but MIDI over USB is rock-solid. This is the way I use my Virus TI most of the time.
    As long as you don't instanciate the VC, you shouldn't have any issue.
    This way you can free some MIDI ports in your setup and eliminate two midi cables.
    edit: BTW you may find my plugin of interest :…page=Thread&threadID=2459

  • You shouldn't.
    VC plugin, or more generally audio-over-USB may cause glitches ; but MIDI over USB is rock-solid. This is the way I use my Virus TI most of the time.
    As long as you don't instanciate the VC, you shouldn't have any issue.

    I think he's saying that he switched all his controller keyboards/devices to MIDI from USB, not his Virus... so that he can free up USB bandwidth for the Virus to use VC without glitching.

    This makes sense. I run a very lean system here, with no external drives or unnecessary controllers taking up USB bandwidth. The only things on my USB ports, besides keyboard and mouse, are the Virus Snow, DSI Tetra and Akai APC20. I can switch the Tetra to use MIDI if I need to and the APC20 is for live performance, so I can disconnect that if it causes me any problems.

  • I keep reading and reading and reading about the VC problems.

    Can you still believe that the guys in Access cannot reproduce our problems?

    In their labs the VC is working fine...Contact them and they will assure you...

  • I wonder if they have a pc loaded with tons of software, or a stripped down test rig. I'd be interested to know how they test their setup, as i wonder if other programs on peoples systems could be causing issues. Things like anti virus, defrag etc running in the background could possibly cause issues. Obviously there is no way any manufacturer can test for all systems, as there is a ton of different hardware and software out there for pc's. In theory mac's should be a bit easier to optimize for as the choice of hardware is much less.

    I feel its worth mentioning how i set my rig up. You might be like this anyhow, but something may help.

    I have disabled every last thing i don't need or use. I start by actually disabling motherboard features in the bios, so it doesn't even show up in windows. For example, the motherboards onboard network and sound can go, as i don't need either. I don't have any internet on my pc, its purely a tool for music production.

    I then tweak windows by disabling features like:

    System restore - it can use resources and i don't need it. i use an imaging program anyhow, i just image my whole drive and can restore in half hour if i have a problem

    Superfetch - i have an ssd drive and don't need superfetch, and it can cause hard drive i/o when i don't want it to

    Windows search - another one that can cause hard drive thrashing, as it indexes all the files on the drive. I just don't need it.

    Windows defender, any antivirus - also can use resources. I want 100% cpu going to my music, nothing else. And i don't need antivirus if its not on the web.

    Windows update - i don't need to continously patch my computer, as its already working fine. And most of the windows updates seem to be security patches. If necessary i can always download them on my laptop and transfer them.

    Any startup programs i don't need also go. Any windows services i don't use can go too. Basically my goal is to run a lean and efficient pc, with as little conflicts and software errors as possible. And i also like to keep it really simple.

  • I do not want to sound pessimistic here, but I am afraid most of the actions you are taking are vein.

    I received a Virus TI before my actually new mac arrived. When it did arrive, I did two things. Installed Logic Pro 9 and connected to the internet only once for the latest update of Logic and Virus OS. After that, my computer never connected to the internet again. It is a music workstation like yours. Moreover, the Virus TI was the only thing connected on the computer. (Via hub, w/o hub and every possible scenario you can imagine).

    Now, I could not really imagine a simpler scenario. And a cleaner system. I assure you my system is as clear as it gets. Still VC was ruining my productivity and mood for music for over than 2 months. The only way I managed to set it up to a level of funcionality was by by-passing the usb-hub (connecting directly the TI in my mac). Of course, this was full of problems as well, but much better than with the hub. Totally the contrary than what Access suggests.

    Now, if you wanna save up yourself some time I would recommend to forget about the VC.

    I am the same angry with Access as many here. Even though I like the sound of my Virus, I still feel I got mislead. I bought the Virus for the TI. That's it.

    Everytime Access tells me that they can't reproduce my problems I get frustrated. All you need to do to face problems is buy a new i7 mac, install Logic and plug in the Virus TI with or w/o a hub. Then try working with it and see what happens sooner or later.

  • Well you're on Mac OS, i don't really know much about it so can't comment. I'm using Windows 7, which i know does come with a bit of bloat. There is a lot of things running that i just don't need, so it definitely frees up a bit of resources on mine. Not much, but i'm just fussy. :thumbup:

  • I think we've been cheated.

    VC is the buggiest VST/AU ive ever known. Access promised total integration but instead we get Limited Integration.
    I think they need to wise up and sort this problem out before they start loosing customers.

    Id love to use the Virus through MIDI only and ditch usb, but i'd prefer to have some sort of Editor which allows u to save patches and open projects.
    This is the only reason I persist in using VC, coz I like its features and what it does.

    Maybe OS5 will introduce Total Integration. :thumbup:

  • By the time Access does so, what about all those guys that will fall in the same trap like we did?

    I opened a thread here asking from Access to take action on this. They should simply show transparency to their potential customers. I also called for everybody who has problems to gather up and pressure Access to take responsibility. Unfortunately, I found no correspondance even though I am pretty sure many people feel the same cheated like I do. And needless to say that Access did not reply of course...

  • Hopefully this post might be helpful to Intel core iX PC users (maybe even some Mac users?). In short, the hint is that on most PC motherboards there are some USB ports that are set so that they pop out of the back of the chassis. And then there are some USB ports that are implemented just as 9-pin headers on the motherboard itself (in fact it's 2x5 with one pin missing). Helping those USB headers find their way out of the chassis as ports might be repaid by finally having the Virus working...

  • If anyone is interested i knocked up a very crude Virus TI Midi device panel in Cubase 5.

    It has almost every midi parameter from page A and B layed out on one panel. I did this very quickly so it has no subnodes, menu info (eg, sources, destinations, waveshapes), patch banks, etc. Simply midi controls.

    If anybody wants to add on any of the above, please do, and post back the results ! A good start would be copying/pasting the entire parameter list per channel, then adding a 16 channel mixer with vol, pan, mute etc. I will be doing this anyway.

    One other advantage of using this is once its loaded, you are able to select midi parameters specifically from the panel to use on a midi controller lane in Cubase, instead of having to reference a list.

    Some parameters are not available in page A/B/C such as slots 4-6 of the modulation matrix and some effect parameters. But fortunately it seems all of the parameters for Osc, Filter, Lfo, etc, are there.

    Cubase 5 Midi device panel xml :

    Screenshot :…/Virus_TI_Midi_Panel.html

    Ace17 Thank you for sharing the full midi parameter list online ! Im sure it has helped alot of folks out there.