This is a great idea! I remember the Virus C and the SoundDiver librarian that came with it. I especially liked how everything was laid out on one page, it made it easy to see at a glance how a patch was built. The tabs in the VC are okay and make the VC compact, but sometimes I need the big picture. Sometimes clicking between tabs when editing becomes a pain. It would be nice to have a "master" page or something as an option so that you could see all parameters laid out at a glance.
Beiträge von mattytraxx
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Now I use the S/PDIF output and USB 1/2/3 to record - using the S/PDIF as a kind of monitor, too, especially if I'm not using VC when on a quick light project.
I agree, DAW wars (and even OS wars) are really a matter of taste. I use Linux/Mac/Windows/BSD as OS's, and use/have used Sonar/FL/Cubase/Audacity/Audition as DAWs, and each has served its purpose. There seem to be so many people who hate this version of Windows, or they hate Apple, or they like this DAW but hate that DAW....I just love all software (when it works). I remember Fruity Loops being fun as heck...alas, I just don't have the time to keep up with it all. If I could afford it, I'd buy every DAW there was and run them under every OS. LOL!
The reason I asked if you use the Virus USB ASIO driver is because it is marketed as being "sample accurate." Is your setup sample accurate? So if I understand your setup, you use the Virus USB for MIDI input and record via the Virus USB digital audio? Or do you also record the SPDIF, in addition to monitoring the SPDIF? How is the latency with that setup? Do you have to adjust anything noticibly or is it adjusted automatically?
I didn't realize you could record digital audio via USB from the Virus without using the Virus USB ASIO driver. I'd like to give that a shot, but I don't understand how you can get digital audio from the Virus USB without using the Virus USB ASIO drivers while using the Creative ASIO drivers...can you explain that one? Do you use that "umbrella" software so you can use two ASIO drivers simultaneously? Oddly enough, there's no demo for Sonar.
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How do you record the audio from your TI? Are you using the analog outputs from your Virus and routing them to analog inputs on your Creative sound card?
Technically, Sonar 7 Producer is supported. So I'm out on a limb when I assume that Sonar 8.5 Producer is also limited. Yes, the UI is a bit cluttered, but if you've used Sonar since the early Cakewalk days, you've gotten used to them adding and adding and adding buttons. The newest release of Sonar, Sonar X1 Producer, has a complete UI rework that is much slicker looking. Remember when you first started using your DAW? Well, to me, Cubase, Pro Tools, Logic, etc. all look confusing to us Sonar users. It's all what you're used to. I remember using Fruity Loops back in the day, but still decided on Cakewalk....every DAW has its pros and cons, man. What matters is that you learn one and get good at it.
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requiring a little fine tuning on the user end is a reasonable compromise. What is lacking is people communicating how they got there in the tips and tricks section.
Well, I think I've gone well beyond doing just "a little fine tuning":
My Troubleshooting Steps
Here's a video of what happens (warning: no sound, sorry about the magnifyer window):
TI OS 4.1.1.05 Crash
Pictures of the messed up GUI (Filter1) and crash report:
Crash PicturesAccess forum admin 'Marc' suggests that there isn't a single problem that hasn't been able to be resolved, yet not a single person has been able to point out something that I'm doing wrong. I have two tickets (slightly different problems) in the queue with customer support and haven't heard a peep back.
I applaud your effort to start a 'golden setup' list in the Tips&Tricks section, and you're right; once people get their rig working, they stop coming here to complain, and they often don't post an in-depth solution.I'm not saying I have a perfectly configured system, but at the same time, I think my computer is sufficiently powerful, my setup is in accordance with the TI Setup Guide and all TI manuals, and I can proove that 1) the latency of my system is sufficient for audio processing and 2) the Virus Control x64-bit .dll plugin made a function call that eventually led to a crash (see call stack in my post above). To elaborate, VirusControl.dll made a call to kernel32.dll, which in turn made a call to ntdll.dll, which lead to the crash. Both kernel32.dll and ntdll.dll are system (Windows) core routines, and I'd highly doubt that the problem lies there. These Windows system .dll files are extremely heavily tested on numerous system configurations. I wonder whether Kemper Digital / Access Music has the resources to do this level of testing.
I'm still not saying my setup is correct. I think I've done everything correct and that my hardware, software, and driver configurations exceed what is required by a long shot. I'm begging for someone to proove me wrong.
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Mine works just fine and I've shared my 'golden setup' and it's no real hassle to implement...
Copying this from your other post, your golden setup is:
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OS: Windows 7 x64
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2
Motherboard: ASUS nVidia chipset
DAW: FL Studio
ASIO driver in use: Creative ASIO
USB Devices: Lots and varying
dedicated PCI-e USB card for virus and midi keyboards
No noticable problems
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My question for you is why do you use the Creative ASIO instead of the Virus USB ASIO driver? My understanding is that you cannot use two different ASIO drivers simultaneously--it's a limitation of ASIO implementation. I'm not implying that you are trying to use two drivers at the same time, I'm just noticing that because you have to choose a single driver, you chose to use the Creative ASIO driver. So if you are not using the Virus USB ASIO driver, then you are also not using the intended full feature set of the Virus TI. It's not really fair to say you have a 'golden setup' if you aren't utilizing the Virus USB ASIO driver.
It's great your setup works, though--thanks for sharing. -
My problems are definitely with the 64-bit plugin. Since I own a TI2 Polar, I removed the TI Snow.dll from the 64 bit plugin directory, as well as making sure the 32 bit versions were removed from Sonar's VST search paths. When loading, only the 64 bit plugin is shown on the VST load/scan screen. Maybe it's something specific to the 64 bit version of VC?
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I've been doing some intensive troubleshooting, and I still can't find a solution to the problem. It seems like in step 7 above (when I said to play notes on the keyboard while playing with the filter1 cutoff in VC), you don't even need to play notes--playing with the Filter1 cutoff dial is enough to get it to crash.
Here is an exhaustive list (15 items) of things that I've tried in order to tune my system for realtime audio:
Native Instruments Audio Tuning TipsI've updated the BIOS, chipset drivers, and pretty much went through every item on that list. Additionally, there are two latency monitors specifically for auditing the capabilities of a system for realtime audio (both free, both mentioned in the guide above):
DPC Latency Checker
Latency Mon
The latency checker is 100% in the green for me, and it reports that "This machine should be able to handle real-time streaming of audio and/or video data without drop-outs." For the few seconds that the Virus Control is running, I don't get any clicks or pops. It's just that it completely crashes Sonar.Of course I've tried the things in the TI Setup Guide:
TI Setup GuideI ran the TI OS 4.1.1.05 installer in "repair mode" twice. Downloaded it a second time just to make sure I didn't download a corrupt copy.
Can anyone else replicate this problem in Sonar? I've done extensive troubleshooting and cannot seem to resolve this problem. I have a ticket in with customer support, but I'm desperate and am hoping someone out there can either help out or verify that it's not just my setup that's causing this problem--it makes the VC plugin completely useless.
P.S.:
In case there are any developers monitoring the forums, I've included the call stack as reported by Visual Studio. I can provide a crash dump generated by Sonar, but I'm guessing it's pretty useless without the debug symbols (which I'm sure Cakewalk won't release). Looking at the dump, the VirusControl.dll made a call that eventually led to a crash.Call Stack (most recent calls on top):
> ntdll.dll!0000000077d05f00()
[Frames below may be incorrect and/or missing, no symbols loaded for ntdll.dll]
ntdll.dll!0000000077d6b1d7()
ntdll.dll!0000000077d6b21a()
ntdll.dll!0000000077d6caa5()
ntdll.dll!0000000077cf9094()
ntdll.dll!0000000077cf563d()
ntdll.dll!0000000077cf9437()
ntdll.dll!0000000077ce1ca1()
ntdll.dll!0000000077d6ca57()
ntdll.dll!0000000077d6d596()
ntdll.dll!0000000077d6ecf6()
ntdll.dll!0000000077d706e4()
ntdll.dll!0000000077d407bb()
kernel32.dll!0000000077bbc4ca()
Virus Control.dll!0000000013f11ce4()
Virus Control.dll!0000000013fef839()
Virus Control.dll!0000000013fff106()
Virus Control.dll!00000000140160f0()
Virus Control.dll!0000000013faa147()
Virus Control.dll!0000000013e621d8()
Virus Control.dll!0000000014019ec5()
Virus Control.dll!0000000013fd5667()
Virus Control.dll!0000000014019ec5()
Virus Control.dll!000000001401f12f()
Virus Control.dll!0000000013fc0463()
Virus Control.dll!0000000013ff1cf8()
Virus Control.dll!0000000014030e54()
user32.dll!0000000077add53e()
user32.dll!0000000077ade530()
user32.dll!0000000077aff8eb()
SONARPDR.exe!00000001406d87d9()
SONARPDR.exe!00000001406d8885()
user32.dll!0000000077add53e()
user32.dll!0000000077adc62b()
user32.dll!0000000077adc71d()
ntdll.dll!0000000077d06ac6()
user32.dll!0000000077adcc9a()
user32.dll!0000000077adccac()
user32.dll!0000000077add174()
mfc90u.dll!000000006b143a67()
SONARPDR.exe!00000001402090fe()
mfc90u.dll!000000006b106f2e()
mfc90u.dll!000000006b15dd5f()
SONARPDR.exe!00000001400808cc()
mfc90u.dll!000000006b15ddc7()
mfc90u.dll!000000006b15dc1a()
mfc90u.dll!000000006b15e4ff()
SONARPDR.exe!0000000140080916()
mfc90u.dll!000000006b115034()
SONARPDR.exe!0000000140b14823()
kernel32.dll!0000000077babe3d()
ntdll.dll!0000000077ce6611()Vista x64, 8GB Ram / Sonar 8.5.3.282 x64 / TI2 Polar 4.1.1.05 / Virus USB ASIO
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I think the issue is not the sound of the Virus--it has been awesome since the beginning. However, consider the changes since the Virus C. There are dual DSP's, hypersaw, reverb+delay, multi patch improvements, and some other really cool features hardware-wise, but think of what TI stands for--TOTAL INTEGRATION. The major difference is in getting the Virus to integrate smoothly and act as a sound card, synthesizer, and midi controller all in one. This is how they marketed the entire TI line. Why customers are so irritated is because getting the software side of the house running smoothly is so fickle; it's not exactly plug-and-play. It shouldn't take a software/hardware engineer to figure these kinds of things out. I don't think anyone here questions the sonic prowess of the TI hardware. People just get frustrated when they drop three grand on something and they can't get it to function as advertised. Really, the TI has to rely on the underlying limitations of the technology (ASIO, USB, Windows/OS-X etc) for realtime playback, so ultimately, it's up to the users to fine tune their particular computer systems.
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After updating to OS 4.1.1.05, I can get the Virus Control to crash Sonar on my system (see specs below) by performing the following steps:
1. Make sure Sonar is using the Virus USB ASIO driver
2. Start a new project with one MIDI and one Audio track
3. Add the Virus plugin to the FX bin on the Audio track
4. Route the MIDI track to use the Virus control; select the TI as the MIDI input
5. Open the Virus Control, and start with the INIT patch (or similar)
6. On the Filter page, choose Analoge for Filter 1 and set it to 4 pole
7. While playing notes on the TI keyboard, use the mouse to play with the Filter 1 cutoff wheelAfter doing step 7 for 15-30 seconds, Sonar crashes. I have a Logitech G5 mouse with the selectable DPI switch (this bumps up the mouse sensitivity); if I go crazy on messing with the filter 1 cutoff, I can get Sonar to crash every time. I realize that I will probably never use the Filter1 cutoff in such an extreme manner, nevertheless, it shouldn't be so easy to cause it to crash.
I unplugged every single USB and network connection from my computer, except for the mouse and the TI2 Polar.
Anyone have an idea why the VC is crashing Sonar? I'm willing to try anything (within reason :), and any help on the matter would be greatly appreciated.
I've already contacted customer support via email and am waiting for a reply back. My system specs are below. Thanks everyone.
Vista x64, 8GB Ram / Sonar 8.5.3.282 x64 / TI2 Polar 4.1.1.05 / Virus USB ASIO
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Marc, I was being a bit rude there--sorry about that. Clearly I need to troubleshoot my system to figure out the problem.
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I didn't think there needed to be sound. I think it's obvious what I'm clicking on. I wanted to show 1) that my settings are correct and 2) that despite the proper settings, the Virus Control plugin crashes easily. The new OS 4.1.1.05 isn't stable on my system. I'm hoping someone will catch something I'm missing.
Sorry if the magnifier is distracting; I wanted to make sure you could read exactly what I'm clicking on--versions and numbers are important here.
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Since the OS update to 4.1.1.05, I've been having frequent crashes and stability problems. I've complained about this in other threads, but here's a video so everyone can see it for themselves:
TI OS 4.1.1.05 Crash at YouTube
I show all important settings, and according to the documentation, everything is properly configured. Maybe someone can spot something I missed. The hardware unit (I have the TI2 Polar) is vicious and really great, but the VC plugin SUCKS. Pretty much the only reason I sold my Virus KC is to upgrade to the TI series for the Total Integration feature--which really doesn't seem to be working well yet. I pretty much got suckered. So now I'm going to head to Native Instruments' website and see if I can find a softsynth for 10% of the price. Might not sound as good, but I bet I'll have less than 10% of the problems. At the end of the day, what matters is that people can be productive being creative and writing music instead of wasting energy being pissed off because of crappy plugins.
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The new 4.1.1.05 OS doesn't work well for me. If I improv on the TI2 Polar while adjusting the parameters in VC, Sonar crashes, reporting an error in the Virus Control plugin. I was changing the Filter1 Cutoff dial in VC while playing on the TI when the sound suddenly stopped--notice the garbled display inside the Filter1->Cutoff dial (it's like it wasn't properly redrawn):
[Blockierte Grafik: http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/mattytraxx/vc_problem.jpg]
Then I noticed none of the controls inside VC were responding, so I tried to close the VC, then I received the following error in Sonar, citing the 'Virus TI' plugin as the problem:
[Blockierte Grafik: http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/mattytraxx/vc_problem2.jpg]
Here is the Windows report; I've added the full contents of the details below.
[Blockierte Grafik: http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/mattytraxx/vc_problem3.jpg]I would post the details of the dub_02132011_081327.dmp file, but without the Sonar debug symbols (good luck getting ahold of those), I'm afraid it's about useless (this file is probably for developers at Cakewalk).
As far as recreating the problem it's easy--just use the Virus Control plugin for 5-10 minutes. I usually play on the TI with one hand while adjusting parameters in VC with the other--that seems to get it to crash pretty regularly with the new 4.1.1.05 OS update.
Vista x64 + 8GB Ram / Sonar 8.5.3.282 x64 / TI2 Polar 4.1.1.05 / Virus USB ASIO
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Same problem here. I'm sure we'll get the standard "get in touch with customer support" answer to this, but based on the number of posts regarding the 4.1.1.05 lag problems, my guess is that we'll either have to wait for a new OS, or figure out some way to downgrade.
Vista x64, 8GB Ram / Sonar 8.5.3.282 x64 / TI2 Polar 4.1.1.05
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Same problems here. Things were working with the usual latency/glitches. Then I decided to give the 4.1.1.05 OS a spin. Bad move. BSOD upon install. Rebooted, power cycled Virus, install seemed to work. Then I reopened the same project in Sonar and the VC started reporting Sync errors in red at the bottom--I've never seen this before. I was also able to crash Sonar by simply improving on the TI while changing parameters in the VC. Same setup, same system, same project, different TI-OS == different problems + (same_latency_problems). As an added bonus, the VC is very sluggish and seems to slow everything down when using it.
Vista x64, 8GB Ram / Sonar 8.5.3.282 x64 / TI2 Polar 4.1.1.05
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I'm a Sonar user, but I can't automate the LFO1 rate if "CLOCK" is enabled.
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Problem: When in Sonar with the VC active, I would improv on the keyboard. If I clicked on another program (Windows Media Player, Internet Explorer, etc), sound would stop coming from the TI, even when I played on the keyboard. If I kept playing on the keyboard (even with no sound) while switching back to Sonar, sound would return, but sometimes a note would hang.
Solution: Options->Audio-Advanced-> UNcheck "Share Drivers With Other Programs"
Now I can switch between Sonar and other programs while playing on the TI and the sound continues to play.
Vista x64 +8GB RAM / Sonar 8.5.3.282 / TI2 Polar 4.1.1.05 / Virus USB ASIO driver
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I had the same issue--BSOD. The first time I tried to install the update in Vista x64, I got a BSOD. Then I tried again, this time the installer started in recovery mode, and it installed the VC plugins and updated the firmware on the Virus. At some point in the process it complained that it couldn't find the TI, so I unplugged it and plugged it back in. After a few tries (reboots on computer and Virus) it seemed to take. Maybe Kemper Digital (or whatever they call themselves now) needs to hire some better software programmers. The hardware rocks, though.
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The TI OS 4.1.1.05 crashed the first time for me, giving a blue screen of death under Windows x64 Vista. Rebooted and ran the installer again, this time in "repair" mode. It finally synced up with the Virus and did the update. The new firmware version can be verified when turning the Polar on.
I'm using Sonar 8.5.3.282 x64, and the Virus Control seems sluggish. While improvising with one hand on the Virus, I was using the mouse to freestyle on the LFO1 Rate dial in VC--I was able to crash the VC and Sonar two times doing this.
Someone else mentioned it, and it's one of the first things I noticed--the SubOsc waveform selection (square <-> triangle) on the OSC pane is very hard to see--a white thin waveform outline on a light gray background. Terrible, but as far as bugs go, I'd rather Access smooth out the VC problems.
I've also seen a "Sync Error" flash up at the bottom of the Virus, reporting that sync has been lost. I've never seen this before. In fact, I was working on a project today before the update, decided to try the new OS hoping it would be more stable, but started having more errors and crashes than ever.
Disappointed.
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Vista x64
8GB ram
Pentium i7 2.67 GHz
TI2 Polar
