Beiträge von ozon

    As expected, the sequence of the Filters does not make any difference, as long as the filters do not introduce any non-linearities such as distortion -- which is not the case for these presets. Thus I swapped the application of Filters 1 & 2.


    I also did slight adjustments to the Character, the LFO amounts and added a soft knob to control the speed of all three LFOs, approximating the modulation controls of the original.


    Enjoy.


    from the top of my head, they're simply not applied at all. unfortunately the mod matrix doesn't reflect this but that's nothing we will be able to change. maybe something happens with some destinations (i wouldn't be able to rule that out) but the result would be just weird or a happy accident, depending on the way you look at it ;)


    I did a couple of tests and found something quite interesting: An LFO 1/2 assigned to Phaser Frequency is always applied, regardless whether the LFO is in Poly/Mono//Env Mode, Clocked or uses Trigger. It behaves as if the LFO is strictly Mono in all cases. Quite consistent and useful! :)



    According to the manual it modulates the phaser frequency, but I'm not sure, maybe there's something else, because it sounds different with an external LFO.


    The Phaser LFO is unipolar, while the standard LFOs generally applied bipolar. Try using the standard LFOs as unipolar source in the Modulation Matrix, route them to Phaser Frequency and adjust the amount there. That way it will sound pretty much identical to the Phaser LFO.

    Sometimes it would be nice to have Envelopes as modulation source for monophonic destinations and also to have Envelopes to behave a little bit different.


    Therefore I'd like to suggest additional Modes for the Envelopes 3/4:

    • Mono mode: The envelope is monopohic, Legato mode defines the re-trigger behavior
    • Legato mode: The monophonic envelope is triggered with the first note and keeps running thorugh its phases as long as any legato notes are played.
    • Loop mode: The envelope keeps looping thorugh its phases as long as a note is held, this requires also a Loop rate setting that can be clocked.

    Naturally, in a perfect world, these Modes can be combined.


    Maybe I'm not understanding something here, but from the manual:
    "Mode.- Mono- All the voices share a common LFO. Only applies if the parameters Envelope Mode and Trigger Phase are both set to "Off".
    I know on Blofeld you cannot use start phase and mono mode at the same time which makes sense when you think about it. On the Virus the manual also states that you can however use Trigger Phase with LFO Envelope Mode.


    You're right. I wasn't aware of that! And I didn't hear that the LFO actually is polyphonic because of the type of sound, playing and destination I tried it with. However, IME using the LFO to modulate the Phaser frequency works even if the LFO polyphonic.


    Maybe @Marc could chime in with additional information on how the (polyphonic) LFOs are applied to modulation destinations which are mono.

    "you need to use an LFO in mono mode."


    Since the original poster needs a fixed start point for the phaser cycle, I don't think a mono LFO would work here according to the manual. Maybe an LFO in Env Mode or why not an LFO in normal Poly mode as I suggested so the Trigger Phase can be utilized?


    LFO with Mono mode works well, and still have the trigger phase option. Also cool: LFO Mono synced to the beat.


    might work as well, i was referring to LFOs because we are talking about the phaser


    sorry, I think I didn't express myself properly: I was referring to modulating the Phaser as well and thought it would be great to have a new "Mono Mode" option for the Envelopes 3/4. Maybe with the capability of hold and re-trigger variants. So that would be a feature request for the Envelopes.

    I just realized it would be more convenient to use Filter 2 to emulate the Polycom filter and have Filter 1 available for the main VCF, which would allow to use the 4 pole and Analog modes for more creative freedom.


    However, I don't know how much of a sonic impact swapping the filters has. Mathematically, I'd expect the result to be the same (due to multiplication) but the filters may behave different.


    I will have to investigate this.

    OK, here they are.


    Patches for the Virus TI recreating the first 3 presets of the Polymoog 280a keyboard:

    • Vox Humana
    • Strings I
    • Strings II

    These patches are based on the samples made by Joeri Peeters and various information about the inner working and control of the Polymoog 280a keyboard found on the internet. I used the MeldaProduction MOscilloscope and SugarAudio Oscarizor to analyse the samples and continuously compared them to the sound from of the Virus.


    Since I don't have a real Polymoog 280 handy, I don't know how close they are to the real thing, but to my ears these patches are almost indistinguishable from the samples even when played side by side. Given that these samples are regarded to be some of the best ever made, I assume any sonic differences to be within the adjustment tolerances of any two original Polymoog keyboards.


    Notes for usage:

    • Attack is sensitive to key velocity, like on the original.
    • The patches select the proper sections on the Virus for direct control of the sound: Control knobs are activated to control Filter 1, Reverb and Phaser.
    • Filter 2 and Analog Boost and the Filter Bank are used to get the basic characteristic of the Polymoog. Filter 2 approximates the fixed Polycom filter and adjusts brightness per key.
    • Filter 1 is to be used like the main filter on the Polymoog. The original VCF is a single filter for all notes. Thus, for most authentic results, Filter 1 should be set to Low Pass and there should be no key tracking and no envelope applied.
    • Use the Detune control knob to adjust detune like on the original.
    • Use the Mod Wheel or the soft control labelled Depth to increase the LFO amount for the pitch and pulse width LFOs similar to the original.
    • Use the soft control labelled Speed to change the LFO amount for the pitch and pulse width LFOs similar to the original..
    • Use the soft control labelled Tone to make the lower keys darker. This is an approximation of the low register filter available on the Polymoog.
    • Phaser: Use the Type/Mix control knob to add phaser to taste.
    • Reverb: Use the Send control knob to change the amount of reverb.
    • For best approximation of high and low register characteristics, two instances of the same patch can be used with different settings for Tone or even lowerering the frequency of Filter 2 for the low register patch. Depending on the preset, you should even consider a slightly wider pulse width for the low register patch. I tried to compensate for that by applying key tracking to the pulse width, but the change of pulse width is definitely not linear across the keyboard. In the low register (below around F2) the pulse width seems to be wider by about 5%.

    Any feedback is welcome. If you like these sounds and use them in your music, I'd love to hear about it.


    Enjoy!

    very much interested in this, but with the new Mac Os update, the Virus soft isn't working anymore....


    Oops. But there are a couple of threads dealing with those issues. It should work.


    Anyway, I did another version of the Vox Humana sound, which IMO is even closer. I mainly changed the speed and amount of the LFOs. Will upload an update soon. I also started to work on the Polymoog 280a Strings I & II presets. Not really there yet, they still require more research and fine tuning.

    email Matt, and he'll send you the Virus Numan sounds as well


    Last night I contacted Matt, and he was kind enough to send me his patches, plus give some additional advice to get closer to the sound. Therefore I reviewed my patches, compared them with Matt's own and his notes. He mentioned that his VH patch only uses 2 LFOs and 2 saws, and that I should set one OSC to pulse, and use a third LFO for PWM, set at a lower rate than the two LFOs modulating the pitch of the two OSCs. Turned out that I was wrong about how the LFOs should affect the OSC. Matt's settings for the LFOs modulating pitch were very helpful go get me in the ballpark for the character. However, it didn't yet sound right, especially the PWM sounded weird.


    Spend the better part of this afternoon doing some additional reading and listening and fine tuning. The most important part of this sound seems to be to capture the character of the LFOs, which produce and multidimensional movement and beating. After reading up on the technical aspects of the Polymoog 280a, I figured that there's actually three LFOs, but unlike in the Virus they affect all notes in the same way. Therefore the LFOs in the Virus must be set to mono. However, the one thing I'm still not sure is whether the Polymoog LFOs produce a triangle or sine wave. And I have a hard time figuring that out from the sources I have access to.


    One further important aspect is that the PM280 does not have the typical Moog 4 pole ladder Filter, but instead just a very simple 2 pole filter for each note. This filters is incapable of being modulated or any resonance, and the settings are hardwired for each preset. Thus, I also changed the filter on the Virus to not produce any "colour" anymore, but just get rid of the upper harmonics.


    About four hours later, I ended up with a patch which to my ears is pretty indistinguishable from the real thing. At least when I compare it to samples and YT videos of the Polymoog Vox Humana sound. Naturally there's a difference, but there's also a difference between any two analogue hardware synths, plus there's a couple of aspects which can be tweaked in the original sound: Modulation intensity, attack, detune, loudness balance over the key range and low pass filter for the lower register.


    Please find the file including the patch "VoxHmn3 OZ" attached to the first post.



    Some interesting links:


    In addition to the Kontakt patch by Stephen Howell using the samples by Joeri Peeters, I used this video as reference


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    • Virus Darkstar: Form follows function meets great industry design
    • Korg Wavestation: Clean and elegant - it's a bit like a sports car, you have to see it in person to fully appreciate how nice its 3D appearance is.
    • Moog Voyager: Form follows function without a fuzz.

    OK.


    I doubt that either your DAW (Ableton Live) or the USB connection per se can produce the type of glitch we can hear in the examples. This is obsviously a sudden detune which then is processed by the FX section (delay). IMO, this indicates that either the Virus' Oscillator section is misbehaving all by itself, or there are random MIDI controller events produced somewhere in the chain to the Virus.


    Do you have any kind of controller device (keyboard, pads, faders, etc.) attached to your computer and routed through Ableton to control the Virus? If so, it could be that this device is generting those events, maybe due to vibrations.

    OK, thanks for the detailed explanation. So the glitch happened at the same time by accident?


    Do these glitches also happen if you connect a keyboard via MIDI and play your Virus directly?
    When you say you use the Virus in Multi Mode, do you use the VC plugin in your DAW?

    Over the years, there were a couple of requests for Vox Humana patches on this forum. Just recently, I stumbled over one of those threads and started to wonder whether it could be done. Since I don't have access to a PolyMoog 280A, I was stuck until I found this:



    Last night, I downloaded the files (Thanks Joeri!) and used them as reference to try a couple of different approaches on the Virus TI.


    Please find attached two patches, which IMO come reasonably close. I tried also to make them use as little resources as possible, on order to keep polyphony high in multi/sequencer mode.


    • VoxHmn1 uses the HyperSaw oscillator
    • VoxHmn2 uses the suggested approach of combining saw and pulse waves and modulating detune and pulse width with three LFOs
    • VoxHmn3 is a refined version, using three LFOs to separately modulate the pitch of both OSC and the PW of OSC 1. Additional refinement include LFO speeds, OSC 1 pulse width, OSC 2 detune, filter characteristics, filter tracking, EQ, and velocity sensitive attack. Use the second filter and effects to taste.


    These are sort of raw templates for the basic sound and need their Amp Envelopes, Velocity sensitivity and FX adjusted to taste.


    Please let me know what you think. Maybe together, we can create the ultimate PM patches.


    Edit: Removed outdated download. Please use patches available below.

    If you put it near the audio outputs, the Virus will sound a bit as if it was played through a Orange 4x12 cab with Green Backs... :P ;)



    Seriously: Interesting question, I already wondered about that when placing the iPad near or onto some electronic devices. I guess Apple would be in serious trouble if those covers would kill electronis.