TI in live performance

  • Can I chime in on this and point out that if you can't use the classic delay on ROM-A 97 SynEns BC - even if you turn the mix right up, nothing. As soon as you change to any of the tape delays it works fine.

  • The MAIN problem here is;


    Virus TI2 'screams' like hell (extremely annoying digital noise) and gets mute randomly... One of our members said he has the same issue on 4 'brand new' products...


    Unbelievable but i can ignore glitches, noises or other ''little' 'weird stuff for now.


    As i said before we do some serious live gigs here.. (incl. live national tv broadcasts)


    Please ACCESS do something about that, at least say something mentioning these issues...


    If there is nothing to do technically, let us know also.


    Thank you.

  • I am working on resolution with access support about this as we speak, here is my email chain so far:
    =============================================================================



    --- Original Message ---
    So I just bought a Virus TI2 Keynoard and I am having some issues with it..


    1- Unit Freezes audio out occasionally and outputs a constant tone or buzz (in standalone mode) Unit need to be turned off to work properly again


    2- CPU is maxed out on certain patches (even without any keys pressed) and sound will pop/crackle when played
    Funny thing is the CPU usage goes down when many keys are played.


    3- When adjusting the audio input menu setting to dynamic then to static then back to off; If I play keys noise is very clicky/poppy and distorted, this however returns to normal when I change patches.


    Here are some links on the forums relating to my issues.... (These are TI/TI2 only)


    Ti2 Crash (Loud hiss) in standalone mode (not connected to pc)
    How can I trust TI in live performance?
    Virus Users with Crash/Noise Issue - Post your Model/Purchase Date/OS
    Virus TI crazy sounds


    Jonathan Van Deventer ([email protected])
    Inq Type: product_support Num: 58008e38 Country: ca


    Virus Type: Virus TI2 Keyboard (many units (first one, than the one Im working with now)) OS: 4.5.02
    Computer OS: Windows 7 Sequencer: Cubase 5.5 Ram: >7gb



    Sincerely,


    ---------------------
    Access Music Support Droid
    ---------------------



    This is in reference with your Request Ticket Number: SI00016122. Please reply back to this email without changing the subject line if you have further clarifications.


    Access Music Electronics GmbH, Koenigswall 16-18, 45657 Recklinghausen, Germany
    Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Recklinghausen, HR 4535
    Sitz der Gesellschaft: Recklinghausen, Gesch�ftsf�hrer: C. Kemper, T. Matuschowski


    Follow us on twitter and get the latest news first hand:
    http://www.twitter.com/accessmusic
    --


    Sincerely,


    ---------------------
    Access Music Support Droid


    =================================================


    Dear Jonathan,
    Thank you for your email. Marc Schlaile already specified an identified bug to a specific issue when switching between Single and Multimode with input processing being active. I think this is in thread 1919. Marc correctly pointed out that the "crashes" you experience with some other users on the forum are anything but common. I can ensure you that we would have massive amounts of emails reporting the same thing here in support and compared to the number of Virus TI users out there the amount of reported issues is absolutely small. This doesn't mean that we're not talking this serious, but the issues you report under 1) are anything but normal - especially when used stand-alone. Is there any specific pattern on when you get this, so is there a way you can reproduce this? (e.g. select Patch XY, play x amount of notes, turn knob z and then crash)


    Regarding issue 2: �first off the "patch complexity meter" doesn't mean the "DSP is maxed out". It simply shows the complexity of the patch and how much "stress" it basically puts on the DSP. You basically can distort the TI internally, so reducing the patch volume down to 100 might not be enough. If you intend to play 10 or more notes with this sound, then you might want to see if reducing the phaser or the overall oscllator volume helps here as well.


    3.: This could be related to the bug Marc confirmed, but I will investigate this further.


    The most important issue I see here right now is the "crash" you get when using the unit stand-alone, so check if you can recreate this issue by doing a certain sequence of steps and let me know, so I can try to recreate this as well.



    Best wishes,
    J�rg H�ttner


    ===============================================


    Hello J�rg,


    1- The crashes are infrequent and happen randomly, I have only experienced 2 in singlemode not connected to usb.
    These concern me, but I have heard from a few others that his has happened to them as well... (So maybe it happens sometimes...?)
    Is there an estimated date of release for the new software/firmware?


    2- What I found odd about the patch complexity meter is; That when selecting the patch ROM D17 (Chimera) it has a very high complexity meter rating (when not played)
    But when I play many keys at one time (up to 10) All of a sudden the meter drops down to 1-2 bars. Which I find very odd, should it not stay the same? And the sound crackles/distorts...(when played-with many keys)


    3- I too believe this is related to the bug that has been discovered, any estimated completion date for the update that will resolve this?


    Yes the crash I believe is important to discover if it is maybe a hardware issues vs a software one. I am still within my return period and I can switch to a new unit if need be.


    --Have you ever had a unit crash while playing in singlemode? not connected to usb?
    --Also, is there an estimated release date for when the next Virus will be released, or is there nothing on the horizon?


    Thanks so much for your reply,


    ================================================


    Dear Jonathan,
    Thank you for your reply.


    1) we do not have a confirmed bug here hence a new OS will currently not address this. We need to figure in your case if this happens in specific occasions or stays completely random and if so (worst case scenario) the unit needs to get serviced. This is definitely not normal. A friend of mine right now is on tour with a TI2 keyboard using every single day stand-alone on stage and on a mobile computer rig to compose in down-time. Not a single crash. Same here with the TI2s I have here and a studio neighbor of mine with a TI keyboard. The same goes for our test stations at my colleagues.


    2) I was able to once recreate a crackling, but I literally put both my hands down on the keyboard to be able to recreate this. I would simply reduce the patch volume even further and take the phaser of for a test. If you experience this with a specific patch only and while playing a lot of notes, then crackling can also be caused by the TI having to shut off too many voices at once if it goes way overboard with voices. In this case I doubt this is the case, but again I couldn't really get this to happen very often. I only got a single incident while pounding down easy over 10-12 notes at once.


    3) unfortunately not at this point. I ask for your understanding.


    There's no release date for any new Virus units, etc. and we do not comment on any future development. I ask for your understanding.



    Best wishes,
    Jörg Hüttner
    ========================================================


    Hello Jörg,


    1- I believe you have never seen a crash firsthand, but I can provide instances on the forums of a few users who have experienced the exact same issue as myself, Random, periodic crashes.
    Not common, not frequent, but it does happen and it has happened to a handful of people... This is why I am desperately trying to find out if it could be a hardware issue versus a software one.
    Only time will tell....


    2- It is good to know this happens and I am not the only one.(Re-assures me my hardware is not at fault) I will be compiling a list of all affected patches and submitting them for your assessment at Access Music.


    3- Can I not get even an estimate? Like weeks or months or 6 months?


    Thank you,


    Jonathan


    ==============================================================



    Dear Jonathan Van Deventer,


    Dear Jonathan,
    How often do you get these crashes at the moment? Try to remember a little bit what you did before such a crash happened. Maybe there is a pattern which allows us to recreate this. Since this is a TI2 the unit must be under warranty still (the TI2 isn't out since 2 years yet and warranty is 24 months) and therefore there's no rush in getting it serviced.
    I can only repeat that the amount of people complaining about this compared to the amount of TI2 users out there is really very low - especially if I also calculate the extremely low amount of emails I get from clients about this. Again don't get me wrong: we take this seriously, but I want to put this in perspective. If 10-15 people complain about this in the forum compared to thousands of users out there, then this is not a wide-spread phenomenon. We would be flooded with reports if this would be a general bug or issue.
    Let's check the behavior of your machine over the course of the next 2 weeks (if this situation is unbearable for you, we obviously can arrange service immediately, but I'm not perfectly convinced of this being a hardware fault yet), so make yourself notes on how often and when this happened and also how many hours the unit was used without a problem.


    Regarding point 2: there's no real need for this. I would rather check with patches where you get this whether lowering the patch volume already helps or if switching off a certain effect (phaser) does the trick. I remember one case with a sound where the phaser was set pretty extreme and this caused a distortion in some cases. Reducing the phaser feedback did the trick there. However this is just an example and has nothing to do with the phaser in general being the culprit.


    Regarding point 3: I'm sorry to say but we do not comment on possible release dates. Beta testing and software development is very unpredictable. I ask for your understanding.



    Best wishes,
    Jörg Hüttner

  • Hi Jörg,


    I have only had 2 crashes ever, in 20 hours of use - not exactly common, but unusual as its in standalone mode.
    The only thing I was doing was patch surfing; play note to hear/demo sound, then change patch, play note/demo sound......Crash.... (Distorted sound out speakers - unit responds to menu presses,{try panic key combo} but will not stop sound until I cycle power) So I cannot induce/trigger an event.


    Yes I agree about this being an infrequent issue with few users, but it is still apparent, and I would like to see how many users have this happen once or twice versus a few/many times.
    I would guess this gets reported only once it has happened a few times to a person... I'm just surprised it happened to me in first few hours of use (in standalone), but others have had many hours and not experienced it, and you have never experienced it, but then on the other hand I have spoken to a few that have experienced it....I guess I will just leave it for now and see what develops...
    I will start a record of my usage and issues I run into and keep your team posted about my findings.


    So we have confirmed that some patches can have distorted sound either by A) overdriving the outputs by oscillator/FX volume or B) dropping voices.
    If I can "repair" the patch by editing the points you and others have mentioned and successfully correct distortion, I will document and return my findings.
    Wouldn't a thorough test of all patches be required to allow a patch on banks that get included onto the ROM/RAM of units that go into sale? Seems they slipped through under the radar.


    Thanks again, your level of support is very re-assuring and I appreciate your patience, diligence and honesty,


    Jonathan

  • Dear Jonathan,
    The Virus TI is literally filled with thousand of patches and our product management monitors patches coming from sound designers, but we're not testing each patch in a super detailed fashion, as this would simply cost too much time and we rather focus on Q&A and developing the TI further.
    I can ensure you that you won't find lots of patches with glitches like that. If you also add the sound sets we have on our website, then the overall amount of patches goes into several thousand (I think it's around 7000 or so and growing). If you test each patch for just 3 minutes, then you're testing patches for easy 1 1/2 months straight (calculating 8 hours a day 7 days a week).
    We are a small team of people and we try our very best to keep an eye on everything and to deliver the best possible product and package, but once in a while something like that simply slips through.



    Best wishes,
    Jörg Hüttner

  • Patch surfing, eh? The plot thickens.... Playing notes and jumping patches at the same time is a bad idea on any hardware - I EVEN crashed my microKORG doing that once...


    At some point I should mention to support the weird voice culling behaviour I get as well - It kills the new voices, too, even though killing the old ones should leave enough room (ie the new voices don't max the virus out in isolation) - It makes using a particular preset impossible on a multi (jumping between the two by changing channel) as I can't return to the normal preset properly - push keys -> get nothing other than old voices kill. Note that the alternate sound is on low priority, too, whilst the sound im moving to is on high priority - so the old voices should be dropped to make room otherwise the option is useless...

  • Ya I forgot,auditioning sounds is something that you need to cross your fingers before attempting...


    C'mon seriously? What is going on here is that Access is having trouble with their code for whatever reason (small team, lack of testing etc)
    And we are all paying for it... I mean I love the virus as much as anyone, but its time for us to stand up for ourselves.
    We are all getting ignored and after many months/years things don't seem to be getting any better...
    They had better pull a magic rainbow rabbit out of their brown eye, or I think we will see many more disgruntled users in the near future....


    digital.criminal


    Access (please) Fix your garbage programming..........

  • What's the matter with auditioning? It works perfectly on my Virus. A small press of the buttons and it makes the sound, a longer press (2sec) and it sustains it until pressed again.

  • Hi there,


    I also feel your pain. I have very similar problems. My newest problem is that the screen doesn't update when i make patch changes on the Mac. It updates some characters on the virus scream but not all. I was in contact with support and they asked me to try many different things. When none of these suggestions worked they stopped replying to my emails. I then began to ring and they would keep saying "We cannot replicate your problems here so it must be your computer" At first I believed them and went out and bought a Mac instead of a PC but I still have the same problems. I eventually gave up. After having the synth a year I am just starting to learn how to use the features on it. I would never use it in a live scenario.


    Also, one of the biggest studios in Dublin have one and the house engineer in there told me he wouldn't touch Virus control or USB because they are buggy as f**k.


    I dont think Access will admit that many folk have problems. If you look the amount of updates to OS3 in the first six months, that I think speaks volumes. Getting Access to take back one of their synths to test must be unheard of. I was actually on holiday in Germany and I was so tempted to bring it and knock on their door. I am having a problem with automation now and it could be me but with the reputation of this synth, who knows......

  • digital.criminal - your language is not appropriate and doesn't comply with what you have signed up to using this forum. please re-read the welcome message/email sent to you when you registered.


    regards, marc

    OK I changed it........

    What's the matter with auditioning? It works perfectly on my Virus. A small press of the buttons and it makes the sound, a longer press (2sec) and it sustains it until pressed again.

    What I meant by auditioning is selecting a patch then playing a few keys, then next patch, then play a few keys.. Not the audition button.. Sorry for the confusion.

  • Thanks for clarifying. I don't usually have problems with that either (standalone), but I've experienced some quirks in the past, depending on the host sequencer and also with other synthesizers so I think it's possible that something triggers a wrong behavior

  • my original post was far too long here so I cut it down to this...


    all I have to say is good luck with OS 4. It was too buggy for me to maintain a stable work environment in the studio. My Snow was manic depressive (randomly screaming both random notes and rhythms although I never even use the sequencer) and experienced midi latency for the first time on OS 4. I never post on forums and figured I would let access know that another user had an OS 4 related problem. Hopefully that will add to the collective voice here asking for revisions to the OS for those who wish to upgrade. The support staff have not let me down in the past, so I am confident that this will all, somehow, be resolved.


    --The Wood.

  • Hi, everyone, I am here to report a fatal bug in OS 4, this bug can occur during live performance, it mutes the TI or get it noisy.


    To see if your unit has the same bug, simply follow these steps to do the test:


    1, You need Ableton Live 8.1.1or greater, Max/Msp 5 installed. ( The demo version of Max/Msp is OK too, download it from http://cycling74.com/downloads/ )
    2, Download the test file I made. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4CI8J05L
    3, Unzip and open the test folder, launch test.als with Ableton Live.
    4, In the session view of Ableton Live, there are 4 tracks, the 4th track contains the MAX device.
    5, Focus on the MAX device window, you can see "TI", "FM8", "Analog", right under each one of them, there is a small white box.
    6, Click the FM8 or Analog box, track 2 or track 3 will play, steadily repeating C3 note.
    7, Open the FM8 or Analog plugin window, just let it plays for a while, it is very stable.
    8, Now click the box again to stop the FM8 or Analog clip. Click the TI box to start track 1.
    9, You can hear the sound sometimes is not so stable.
    10, Open the VC plugin window, the sound becomes more unstable.
    11, Turn on VC's LIVE mode, the sound now is very unstable. Let it plays for 1 hour, it is probably get noisy or mute. Bug found.
    12, Restart Ableton Live, do step 8 again, but this time close the VC plugin window, and minimize the LIVE window.
    13, The sound is much stable than step 9, 10, 11.
    14, Install TI OS 3.3.4, do the test again. The sound is stable, no bug found.
    15, Please tell me the result, and also report to Access support.


    Maybe someone think that the problem comes with the MAX device, let me explain: What MAX here do is stop and play the MIDI clip rapidly, just to make the bug more obvious, but not create the bug, it's just like a magnifier, takes us to a close look at the bug. Without the MAX device, the bug is hard to be noticed at most of the time, but when you can notice it, it kills you. Surely you maybe want to test the bug without MAX, then just open the VC plugin window and turn on LIVE mode, keep sending MIDI notes into TI for 5 hours, it has a high probability to get the bug.


    Thank you everyone :)

  • Though not using my Virus TI2 live, I had similar issues. After exchaning half-a-dozen or so emails with tech support and convinced them of a problem, I ultimately had to ship my Virus off for warranty repair. End result was that my DSP was crashing and the system board was replaced.



    I had to send it off twice because the repair shop "forgot" to reconnect the ribbon cable that controls the keyboard when in standalone mode. Go figure but in all it wasn't a painful experience. The first time it went off for repair, I got it back in two weeks. The second time to reconnect the ribbon cable, I got it back in two days.



    It took me longer to convince support that it wasn't an ID10T error and that I may know a thing or two about how devices interact with a PC. :P