os x sierra and virus ti

      @Marc is there a timeline for this? an estimated delivery date?

      developer previews have been available since June so that developers can be ready before release. (even the public beta has been available for nearly a month).
      Why are your suppliers not using the dev previews? this appears to happen for every Mac OS release... yet we all know Apple tend to make a new release every 12-18months, its no 'surprise' to anyone including developers.

      as for upgrading:

      there are many saying Sierra is generally better than El Capitan, so many will want to upgrade, but yeah, usually its better to wait for the first maintenance release.

      for me... Id like to upgrade one of my Macs (probably my MBP), as I do development work, and need to support users on Sierra, I can't just tell them not to upgrade! of course, I have another Mac, so I can use that for the Virus, but Id prefer it to be working on MBP too.

      also, for some new users they wont have a choice... if you buy a new Mac, it will come with Sierra pre-installed, to asking people to uninstall that and install El Capitan is painful...
      (and actually I'm not even sure if Apple will still keep El Capitan available, its usually removed from the apple store)

      also bare in mind, Apple have a nasty habit for there other software products, of putting minimum requirements of the latest OS.
      don't be surprised if we see a new version of Logic Pro , MainStage, Final Cut Pro, that will require Sierra, which will mean some users will 'need' to upgrade

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 2 mal editiert, zuletzt von „thetechnobear“ ()

      @thetechnobear: i've already posted something re. future Sierra support. we are waiting for the company who supplies the drivers. and since i've posted a warning some time ago, you can see that we are receiving developer previews. that's why i know that it doesn't work.
      apple doesn't remove the download option from the app store for users who have downloaded a specific OS already. and the minimum specs for all apple apps are way below 10.10 - there is no reason to rush and upgrade. don't panic.
      The Virus on Facebook: facebook.com/accessvirus

      Marc schrieb:

      @thetechnobear: i've already posted something re. future Sierra support. we are waiting for the company who supplies the drivers. and since i've posted a warning some time ago, you can see that we are receiving developer previews. that's why i know that it doesn't work.apple doesn't remove the download option from the app store for users who have downloaded a specific OS already. and the minimum specs for all apple apps are way below 10.10 - there is no reason to rush and upgrade. don't panic.


      It is a bit disappointing to see you downplay the problem so much, instead of sticking to the (much more appropriate) apologies you made in the announcement : many people have good reasons to upgrade which are not all yours to judge, and others don't even have a choice. It feels slightly insulting as a customer to read "no reason to rush" or "don't panic", coming from someone who's late : if this is indeed your opinion that there's no rush, that explains a lot and doesn't help us trust that you're doing everything you can to pressure your supplier or looking for workarounds in the meantime...

      You suggest downloading 10.11, but downgrading an OS is not a supported operation (when it even works, it's likely to leave a huge mess in an existing installation)
      And the reality is that people buying new Macs for the past 2 weeks simply can't use the Virus TI as intended. The timing is especially bad because you can expect many people to upgrade to the new Macbook Pros scheduled in late October : anything < 10.12.1 will *definitely* not be able to support the new hardware. So, you might have even more annoyed people very soon if your supplier doesn't hurry up.

      As Technobear rightly says, the disappointing part is that like every year, it was possible to know about this since June 13th and to start working on it (or in your case maybe warn customers / start putting pressure on the 3rd party driver company). You mention a warning you posted some time ago, as proof that you're watching developer previews : was it the Sept 8th announcement ? I couldn't see anything else. That's not very early, I hope you didn't first find out about the issues in September and contact your supplier only then... :/

      That being said, let's try and be constructive : is VC completely broken or is it just the CoreAudio driver functionality ?

      Would you consider at some point releasing a stripped down version of VC without USB audio streaming, just analog outs and the librarian/editor functionality over MIDI ?
      This kind of "VC lite" should be relatively future-proof and immune to new OS changes, and it would allow people to at least open existing projects and use the Virus with the analog outputs forever.
      Even if you completely moved on to a different line of products and stopped supporting the TI/TI2 someday, or got fed up with Apple :)

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von „reno“ ()

      Did you guys see the announcements by Native Instruments and Steinberg to NOT upgrade to Sierra?!

      And yes, it's the same every OSX release... with the aforementioned companies. Sometimes not even Logic works any more as desired.

      Funny that you expect Access to be better than some of the big players in audio software...
      Bass Player and Synthesist.
      Virus TI2 Darkstar | Virus TI2 Desktop | Moog Sub 37 | Waldorf Blofeld | Elektron Machinedrum SPS-1 | NI Maschine | NI Komplete Audio 6
      Mac OS X 10.12.6 (Sierra) | Cubase Pro 9.5 | Ableton Live 9.6 | MainStage 3.3 | NI Komplete 9

      oliAtBass schrieb:

      Did you guys see the announcements by Native Instruments and Steinberg to NOT upgrade to Sierra?!

      And yes, it's the same every OSX release... with the aforementioned companies. Sometimes not even Logic works any more as desired.

      Funny that you expect Access to be better than some of the big players in audio software...


      Well it just means NI / Steinberg are not an example to follow.
      I don't think anybody will blame them if the Apple changes were so disruptive that it took them more than 3 months of work to fix and QA, starting in June (but that's unlikely)
      No, the real problem is that each year, the way they communicate makes it seem like they're only starting the work in September, at the end of the Apple beta cycle, not taking advantage of developer previews at all. And that, frankly, is not respectful of customers *

      What I would really like to understand is why it seems to be such a big problem in the audio industry in particular : I don't think it's for technical reasons alone (it's not like Apple isn't making changes all over the place that affects most non-audio developers too !)... no, the thing is, I saw updates coming all over the summer for most of my other apps. It seems like everyone else is taking advantage of developer previews and many are ready on day 1. So I can only guess that audio devs know they'll get away with starting in September, because their customers (musicians) have a rather conservative attitude towards upgrades. This isn't good for anyone...

      *last year was an exception, as clearly Apple broke something on their end with AU validation, that was only fixed in 10.11.1, so they were the ones to blame here. But it's an exception.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 2 mal editiert, zuletzt von „reno“ ()

      reno schrieb:


      Well it just means NI / Steinberg are not an example to follow.


      A funny thing to say about two of the oldest and most successful audio software companies.

      The VC sits on top of several technologies:
      - Apple OS
      - Apple AU
      - Steinberg VST
      - Steinberg VST3
      - Polytec USB Driver

      And then there's the Windows side of all of that.

      You generally don't want to develop against beta versions of libraries with that sort of complexity involved.

      PS: I agree on investigating the idea of a VC version without audio.
      Bass Player and Synthesist.
      Virus TI2 Darkstar | Virus TI2 Desktop | Moog Sub 37 | Waldorf Blofeld | Elektron Machinedrum SPS-1 | NI Maschine | NI Komplete Audio 6
      Mac OS X 10.12.6 (Sierra) | Cubase Pro 9.5 | Ableton Live 9.6 | MainStage 3.3 | NI Komplete 9

      these driver issues are apples fault

      +1 for vc version without audio .... But that could be a problem if virus usb ports are not compliant.

      Just a note though, Apple keeps doing this, I have already thrown out my firewire gear because it is not compliant with mac's new thunderbolt to usb converter..
      I am a software developer for ios, so I work on apple every day, and need to keep my machine up-to-date.

      I don't use a DAW any more, I control my virus with an electribe 2S, I only use my mac to add and remove patches.

      Maybe it is time for me to buy a windows machine (grim), and kick my mac out of my studio for good.

      Apple should understand that people have gear attached to their hardware, that is why they supply ports, so they should inform users of changes that can effect their hardware integration before installing.

      oliAtBass schrieb:

      reno schrieb:


      Well it just means NI / Steinberg are not an example to follow.

      A funny thing to say about two of the oldest and most successful audio software companies.


      And yet this is what they're doing despite making great instruments / DAWs : being notoriously worse at getting ready for OS releases than the rest of the Mac ecosystem.
      There is not a great reason for that (if you know one, I'm curious), so it is probably just "musicians are not very aggressive at upgrading their OS, no need to rush, they'll let us get away with it"

      oliAtBass schrieb:


      You generally don't want to develop against beta versions of libraries with that sort of complexity involved.


      Except that Apple knows a thing or two about software development best practices, they're not crazy, so major API changes are completed and frozen in time for the first Developer Preview, until the next year. As a developer you can rely on being able to code against that, without Apple pulling the carpet under your feet again in 2 weeks time. Everyone would be furious if they did that.

      It's not the case of course, so this 3 months time is the opportunity to discover any major changes you should start adapting to straight away.
      What seems acceptable to me maybe is to leave QA / final testing for the golden master if not the final release, and that means everything should in any case be ready within 1-2 weeks max. 2-3 months is simply unprofessional.

      TNTRox schrieb:


      Just a note though, Apple keeps doing this, I have already thrown out my firewire gear because it is not compliant with mac's new thunderbolt to usb converter..

      Apple should understand that people have gear attached to their hardware, that is why they supply ports, so they should inform users of changes that can effect their hardware integration before installing.


      I don't get it. You're saying that your FW gear doesn't work with a TB->USB converter. That's for sure... but why don't you get a TB->FW converter then ?
      I'm using an OWC Thunderbolt 2 dock for my Mac, it has a FW 800 port which works just fine with my MOTU Ultralite mk3.

      Worried about future support

      Let me join in on the complaining.... if only to show Access that some owners of their gear are not happy right now. The development of the Virus seems to have come to a standstill, and now appears to be limited to maintenance upgrades (and late at that). I understand that Access cannot keep supporting the Virus forever, but come on, as long as it is still for sale I would expect something more than a defensive: ' be patient, it's not in our hands, why are you complaining?'. That worries me. A lot. I would at least expect a statement along the lines: beta drivers are expected Q4, release Q1. Now it seems of NO priority at all, and Access appears very passive. MacOS and Windows will only accelerate their respective upgrade cycles; not being ready for that seems to signal Access is slowly giving up. I actually intend to buy a new Mac next month... but do I have to leave the Virus behind??

      Harsh? Probably. But Access needs to communicate better on this. Talk to us, don't make such an off-hand remark!!

      Oh and I wouldn't mind an announcement on other future plans... is there a version 6 in the making for example? As suggested above, I hope Access starts thinking about future proofing the Virus now that it is (apparently) coming to the end of it's production. So yes please, give us a 'light' driver sans audio! I would love to keep using it for a good number of years...

      PS It can be worse by the way: I shelled out a lot of money for the firewire extension, Radias expansion and sample memory for my very expensive 88 key Korg M3, but these days I can only use the midi ports!! Korg just dropped the support completely after a mere 2 years...

      Peace, out.

      Tracer schrieb:

      Harsh? Probably. But Access needs to communicate better on this. Talk to us, don't make such an off-hand remark!!

      at least take the time to read the relevant posts in this forum ;) we are not silent on it. we've said that we will be late for 10.12 before 10.12 was released. we've also said we are waiting for the company who we license the driver from. i'll post something here once we there are news. of course this has priority.
      The Virus on Facebook: facebook.com/accessvirus

      Marc schrieb:

      Tracer schrieb:

      Harsh? Probably. But Access needs to communicate better on this. Talk to us, don't make such an off-hand remark!!

      at least take the time to read the relevant posts in this forum ;) we are not silent on it. we've said that we will be late for 10.12 before 10.12 was released. we've also said we are waiting for the company who we license the driver from. i'll post something here once we there are news. of course this has priority.


      Hi Marc,
      Don't want to speak for everyone but I think we can all understand that you're relying on a third party (Ploytech?) and their timing is now beyond your control. There are 2-3 things that should be in your control though:
      1. Please start pressuring your supplier asap when things break. Maybe you did, but it is not clear from your Sept 8th announcement when you found out about the incompatibility : I hope it's rather in June than early September ! It is too late to fix it for this year and blaming won't make things go faster, but please please please, do that next year ! A lot of precious development time has potentially been lost over the summer :(
      2. It's not a nice feeling as a customer to read you telling people not to panic, or judging that nobody should be in a rush to upgrade. Please own the problem.
      3. In the meantime, would you consider the idea of releasing a stripped-down audio-less version of VC that doesn't rely on any drivers, just plain MIDI ? Even if USB Midi doesn't work, that would be a much more future-proof fallback solution !