there is no professionalism in this

  • A Logic Pro 9 worth 500€ and a synth worth 2500€ and i can't ever use it smoothly because of the usual crashes???


    then if people prefer to download FruityLoops 10 and Nexus 2 for the total price of: 0,00 €
    AND NEVER HAVE A CRASH
    don't be surprised.


    there is no professionalism in this, from both apple and access.


    and please don't start ask if i did that or that wrong, cause i use Logic since 10 years, virus ti2 since 4 years,
    nothing less all other people i know that have these stuff have same problems.
    and the customer answers from access that answer "please try to lower the cache size and blabla" cam'on.......its embarrassing

    MacPro 4.1, TC Electronics Konnekt Live, Access Virus TI2 Polar, Waldorf Pulse, Roland TB3, Cubase 7.5

  • Whatever. Go ahead and have a pessimistic attitude about it. I had issues with my system setup crashing on me...at first. Then I started to read the forums, give feedback to Access about Betas and did the required tweaks. Now my system is running very smooth because I went through those growing pains. It's not fair to Access for you to call them unprofessional because they always respond to help inquires and are always developing features that users have requested. I would say this to anyone having issues with their system: Post your actual issue in the forum and not the grip.


    If you personally attack me in this forum I'll report you to Access Music forum moderators. I have not attacked you personally, but I've been only critical of your inaccurate assessment of a great company due to your actual failure to allow others to help you get your system working seemlessly.

  • then if people prefer to download FruityLoops 10 and Nexus 2 for the total price of: 0,00 €
    AND NEVER HAVE A CRASH
    don't be surprised.


    there is no professionalism in this, from both apple and access.


    This is confusing to me.When did FL studio and Nexus become free?I am not a fan of Apple but they are quite professional . AccessMusic is also a very professional company.

  • I had issues with my system setup crashing on me...at first. Then I started to read the forums, give feedback to Access about Betas and did the required tweaks. Now my system is running very smooth because I went through those growing pains.


    I think that's the issue - some people don't want to have to do 'the required tweaks', or use beta software. They just want to plug in their shiny new expensive piece of hardware and... have it work! Its not too much to ask really.


    When i first installed the software, the installation failed. I then installed it again, and it seemed ok. Then i couldn't detect the Virus, then i had to change usb ports round, as my mouse stopped working, then this then that etc. Its not easy to use at all, and this is not made clear anywhere on the site when you buy one.


    What is made clear is that the Virus is a amazingly powerful workhorse that can have multiple parts and 1800+ voices. Which is perhaps the biggest lie i have ever heard. I can overload my Virus with just one patch, if i crank the unison up. Just try it, set the osc's all to hypersaw, put some release on the envelopes and set the unison to maximum. Then play some chords, it drops voices. Hypersaw is 9 voices, plus sub makes it 18 per osc, thats 36 with 2 oscs, plus another 1 or 2 for osc 3(say 2) makes 38, times 8 for unison = 304 voices per key, 912 per triad. Theoretically i should be able to play triads with a nice release, as it'd only reach 1800 on the release state when i hit the next chord, but most of the time it'd play 900. But it drops voices if i hold the chord and play just one other note, even if i reduce the unison. And that's with no effects, filtering or modulation.


    And then there is programming the Virus, hardly the easiest thing i've ever programmed. I'm used to softsynths with clean interfaces, in comparison the Virus is an absolute nightmare. Take NI Massive for example, sure it doesn't sound half as nice as the Virus, but it is a ton easier to use. If i want to detune osc 1 and 2 by 30 cents, i can do it in seconds. How can i do that on the Virus? If i want to assign an envelope to filter 1, different envelope to filter 2, then an lfo to switch the filters between parallel and serial, i can do it with a few clicks on Massive. I can't even do that on the Virus. I can assign different envelopes, step sequencers, performer lfo's(custom shapes) and standard lfo's to ANY parameter on Massive. I can't do this on the Virus. In fact, i am disappointingly limited with the Virus, each lfo seems to have different things i can assign it to.


    And what is the third oscillator all about? Its not a proper osc, i can't do pwm or half the things the other 2 can do. And lfo 3, seems like another afterthought. I can't set the initial phase on it, how annoying. In fact, for quite a few things, i find myself having to guess values in the mod matrix, as some things go from -63 to +64 or something, whereas other parameters go in %. And i can't assign portamento to a filter, so when i play a sequence of notes that glide nicely, the result is ruined by the sudden jarring of the filter instantly leaping between notes.


    Where is the initialize option? A really basic feature! Instead i have to hunt through menus and load an init patch! Just being able to click somewhere and initialize is pretty standard nowadays.


    What i would like to see, for the money i paid, is a better version of the virus control. One with clear proper values(semitones, cents etc), drag and drop modulation(its 2012 after all), visual feedback such as lfo phases, oscilloscopes, anything. I'd like the ability to copy and paste one patch to another, rather than having to save it and load it again. A better manual or more tutorial videos, as the current manual is uselss, it just repeats the same stuff over and over. I'd also like to see the 1800+ voices claim taken off the site, as its misleading and false advertising.


    I can totally understand the OP's frustration, i'm personally a bit disappointed with my Virus. The learning curve is a bit steeper than it ought to be, and the interface isn't even close to a modern VSTi's.

  • I hear your pain. In my experience the only way the Virus is stable is not running it as a plugin in Logic. Midi and audio outs - old skool but the USB/TI is just too flaky for me, and yes I have spoken to technical support - who are brilliant - and followed al different ideas from the forums - but still the Virus is crap when running it via USB for me. Every time a new OS or Beta appears I download it for the TI2 hoping this time it will be better but I always return to the old fashioned way eventually. What with the arps falling out of sync, tuning drifting and crashes plus it also just never 'feels' right over USB - thought the last part is a personal thing! Resigned this might always be the case! :S but still I love the Virus Ti2 :)

  • @Virtual: Altough the Virus is hardware in VST skin, I think it is unfair to compare it to a SW only VST which is only limited by your memory size, CPU speed and the programmer's Imagination. A hardware synth is limited by its internal architecture which cannot be changed even by an OS upgrade. The key is to know the synth's strong points and limitations, only then you can start thinking how to implement a certain sound in the given constraints. So here is a list of tips for the issues you've raised:


    • It's true that TI technology doesn't always play "right out of the box". It is always helpful to have a computer savvy person around when installing.
    • Where does it say the Virus has 1800 voices? it must be a mistake. It is true that it would be a lot more accurate if Access had stated that the voices are limited by M oscillator slots available, N filter slots available, X LFO slots available and Y effect slots available, all of which are divided by unison, but not all users would grasp that, so instead you have the complexity bar so roughly let's assume the TI2 can play notes worth a total of 300 imaginary points at each given moment, then 1 complexity bar is a note roughly worth 3 points, 2 bars is 4 points, 3 bars is 6 points, 4 bars is 8 points, and 5 bars is 10 points - this is a "weightwatchers" kind of estimate of mine, per one note per every point in time, so it also matters which patches are played more and with larger chords.
    • Hypersaw is not 9 voices, there is an algorithm there that calculates the waveform without actually taking up the power needed to run 9 oscillators. Again, only trust the complexity meter.
    • Regarding programming the virus, as I said, I usually don't go straight to the Virus, but first try to think of what the Virus has available and how can I utilize it to come up with what I want. For complex sounds I even use pen and paper. Once you know how you are going to do what you are going to do, navigating the VC tabs is a breeze.
    • There are not many areas where the users are free to draw waveforms and other shapes to their heart's desire, because it is impossible to represent them as a predefined amount of sysEx bytes, so that they can be saved in one patch memory area which has a fixed size. In some other pure SW synth plugins, you are not limited in terms of the size of the file that represents the patch - that's one of the architecture limitations I was talking about.
    • You are not limited by the "hard wired" LFO routings (although when preferring them you are helping to keep the complexity bars low), because you can always use the modulation matrix to route from each of the LFO-s. You are right about the portamento/key-follower issue but it can be relsoved very elegantly in an OS update if Access take my advice of adding a few more routing sources... ;-)
    • The modulation matrix is your aid in detuning as well - use constant, 10% and 1% as sources to tune to the finest of fine.
    • I usually revert to init patch by dragging an init patch from one of the bottom channels, and dropping it on the channel I want to initialize. Same goes for doubling a patch to two channels.
    • Regarding absolute values of parameters with time/frequency/whatever units, I guess sometimes you cannot forsee the exact result, especially when the value is modulated by some other source. So use your ears, and let the relative 0-127 value give you a rough idea.
    • You are right regarding VC not showing the effects of contour and phase changes. Did anyone write this as a suggestion? When I am not sure what the resulting LFO waveform is, I create an init patch, mute the oscillators, bring noise volume to middle position, and modulate noise volume with the LFO in question. Then I play a note and route the output through a nice plugin called s(m)exoscope. The waveform becomes an envelope, so the top edge is mirrored by the bottom edge.


    Hope any of this helped.

  • I hear your pain. In my experience the only way the Virus is stable is not running it as a plugin in Logic. Midi and audio outs - old skool but the USB/TI is just too flaky for me, and yes I have spoken to technical support - who are brilliant - and followed al different ideas from the forums - but still the Virus is crap when running it via USB for me. Every time a new OS or Beta appears I download it for the TI2 hoping this time it will be better but I always return to the old fashioned way eventually. What with the arps falling out of sync, tuning drifting and crashes plus it also just never 'feels' right over USB - thought the last part is a personal thing! Resigned this might always be the case! :S but still I love the Virus Ti2 :)


    I think this is my position too, again, the support is great.


    I have just bought an Allen &Heath Zed Z16 desk so that I can/will use the analogue outs of the Virus.


    The R16 desk allows you to route the analogue signals through Logic's plugin's and back into the channel for mixdown. So it's an analogue/digital combination where every analogue instrument can be treated as a virtual ITB one with plugins on the Logic channel inserts.


    That's the theory at least as I can't get the ***** desk software to work at the moment!


    There's always the pain, but I'll report back as soon as I have it set up how it works. I am aiming to keep the VC plugin working over USB and just assign the outs to analogue thereby taking the audio away from USB. Hopefully that will sort any timing issues and the pops out.


    After owning the Virus for about a year it's a shame it doesn't do quite as promised in terms of plug and play, but you still get great sound - this really should be stressed - and polyphony. Plus real knobs to fiddle with which I work better with.


    I'd buy it again despite the headaches I have experienced, caused probably by the new Mac Book chips. I have had to revise my set up and my expectations were that set up would be a bit more plug and play, but we should all know better than that these days. I refer you to my experience with the A&H desk (currently waiting for tech support to turn up for work on Monday).

  • Thanks for the pointers Bob, yes some of them have definitely helped. I do like the Virus, i've just been a bit disappointed by some things, and at times frustrated when trying to do simple things.


    As far as hardware limitations go, i'm not sure but aren't dsp's just processors? So in theory you could add extra instruction sets for the dsp's to run? I don't know how it works, but they're adding new features for the next os update. It would definitely be nice to have portamento on filter cutoff.


    As far as the TI Control goes, i was only comparing it to a softsynths interface. These synths are getting so well thought out, and the interfaces are a pleasure to use. I used Massive as an example as its one of the easiest synths i have ever had to use, you can just drag and drop a modulation source. There's no reason the Virus couldn't have a more friendly interface, it'd only affect what we use to control it.


    With regard to the Virus working out of the box, i am very computer savvy and usually help others with computer problems. I got mine working within a couple of hours, but it took some messing round. It would certainly be a problem for someone who doesn't know much about computers, and i imagine cause a lot of frustration. I hate having to contact any sort of support, as i'm impatient and like to get things working right away. :)


    As for the lfo's, it can be annoying sometimes to have to set up the mod matix. Took me a lot of messing around - i wanted to do either a pitch envelope or a pwm i can't remember which, on 2 or 3 osc's. I'm not at the Virus now so it might be inaccurate. Anyhow, i wanted to assign a control so i could set the amount that the pitch or pwm was affected. To do this, i had to assign all 3 in the mod matrix, then i had to assign another mod matrix to that one, with all 3 again assigned to the amounts and use a control as a parameter, then i had to assign a soft knob to that control. Phew! Took me a while to work it out, this would be so easy on a number of soft synths through a drag and drop interface. Using Massive again, although a number of synths have this, you have 8 macro knobs that you can assign any amount of controls to. So i could just turn one knob and control the pitch on 3 oscs, lfo speed, distortion amount and filter cutoff's at the same time if i wanted. I'm sure it wouldn't use any more dsp, as its just a control thing and could be done in the software side of things.

  • The Virus engine emulates a pre-wired analog synth. Think of it as a Minimoog on digital steroids... Your requests for connecting any-to-any are more in the vein of a modular synth (hmm... Nord modular is discontinued and Arturia are embracing the Minibrute). If Access happen to change the engine of the Virus, the patches will not be backward compatible, and this is something that Access were trying to avoid all along.
    Regarding the modulation matrix, I think it's a learning curve issue, and yes, routings take up considerable computing power. I even suspect that Access didn't allocate enough power to them since some of the snappier percussions I programmed on the Virus have a tendency to get distorted when other channels are playing along.
    I dig what you are saying, but you really have to know your tools, their benefits and drawbacks, so that you know what to expect of them and how to make good use of them.

  • I am aiming to keep the VC plugin working over USB and just assign the outs to analogue thereby taking the audio away from USB.


    Yes that solution did show some improvement for me as well but I still had issues! and so did the Ti :P It's a constant shifting problem :D


    As a pointer to others, someone I know on Cubase 6 found this was the way to solve most of his problems, USB for the plugin, audio outs to analogue.


    BTW Let us know how you get on with the Zed, I much prefer dedicated hardware to Mice and screens but then I grew up on hardware :D

  • Analogue outs bypasses another stage in audio processing... its logical Cap'n! 8) thats why i use this method. think about it!... the more processes in the audio/digital path, the more delay you will get??? and as the Virus is USB 1 the slower the transfer.... send to the virus via PC/MAC output via analogue outs on Virus, to mixer... sorted!... not USB out of virus... oooh nooo! bad move.. nice in "theory" but not with USB 1... i must admit that Access is using USB to its extremes (in my opinion) that is way above what USB 1 is capable of. its great for editing Virus Control (and capable) but if you expect to run Audio, Midi, And the like back and forth down a "serial" data bus you WILL run into trouble! no getting away from it!..


    If you are experiencing trouble using ASIO USB VIRUS soundcard (because thats what it is) then use "ANALOGUE outs" only music snobs use hi rez digital outs....


    Now theres a subject!!!??? :D


    C'mon!!!

  • Yes that solution did show some improvement for me as well but I still had issues! and so did the Ti :P It's a constant shifting problem :D


    As a pointer to others, someone I know on Cubase 6 found this was the way to solve most of his problems, USB for the plugin, audio outs to analogue.


    BTW Let us know how you get on with the Zed, I much prefer dedicated hardware to Mice and screens but then I grew up on hardware :D


    So far the Zed has proved difficult to install and get communicating with Logic. The basic transport functions now work (took 5 days, temperamental doesn't cover it) but the faders and other midi controls are just going haywire, so some programming needed there and Allen & Heath's documented methods do not work - had the Absolute Music Tech support verify that (they, like Access support have been great btw).


    Also the Virus now has communication errors since the Zed installation. I get the error message on VC start up. It does then fire up but it's clearly not right as notes are dropping out and still getting pops etc.


    So I'd say it's two steps back so far!


    Got a ticket logged with Access support to try and troubleshoot so more soon.


    It's never easy, I'll be glad to start making some music and potentially this set up will be great.


    cheers